Term limit for legislators? Minister Skelton believes so
BVI News Staff - Wednesday, February 15th, 2012 at 11:44 AM
A minister believes legislators should not serve more than two terms * Photo credit: John Black
Minister for Health and Social Development Ronnie Skelton’s two-term remark that was made in the House of Assembly on February 14 created a lively radio debate later that evening.
Skelton, who was speaking during the debate of the Customs Management and Duties Amendment Bill, commented that perhaps some legislators should be given a term limit.
“I am really in favour of term limit for some of these members. Some of these members are in here too long, so they lost contact with what is going on. I was glad I got sent out because it gave me a chance to see what is going on with the people… and the people are hurting Madame Speaker,” the minister stated.
Minister of Education and Culture Myron Walwyn also spoke along that line and stated that some of the members of the House need some time out.
“Some of us need to get put out! Some sell their business since they get in power so they have no idea cause they have blinders on, and it is a dangerous thing when you have people who have no business idea making decisions,” Walwyn said.
However it was later in the night during the Speak Out BVI radio talk show on ZBVI radio that the issue and comment made in particular by Minister Skelton was mentioned by talk show host Douglas Wheatley, who said he didn’t get a chance to hear much of the sitting. However, Wheatley interpreted the minister’s comment as saying “that there should be term limits so that some of the politicians, who have been in the House for a very long time without a break, could get an opportunity to exit the House and see what life is like on the outside and maybe return if they are re-elected another time where they would be able to bring a different perspective to the debates.”
Wheatley emphasised that his term-limit question was not focused on legislators only, but explained that it could also be extended to top public servants.
“If you have someone who is appointed to a position, whether in the public service or in a statutory body, or a commission or committee and they may be doing a good job sometimes the tendency is if they are doing a good job they should be left to perform and sometimes they may be there for up to 10, 15, 25 years. But when we look as a country as a whole we are selling ourselves short because we know only that one person and how that one person performs, but we don’t give other persons an opportunity to perform. Perhaps the other person might perform a lot better than the last person but you would never know because they were never given a chance…. and we are losing out on the diversity that would be brought in by some other person,” Wheatley said.
However one of the callers to the Show, in some instances agreed with the comment, but also stated that she believes that there should be no more than four-terms for politicians in office because “we come to think that we own those seats and during campaign you hear people talk about coming to run against me in my district. It is not your district, we loaned it to you for a time and you would be lucky if we return you… And you hear people talk about my ministry. It is not your ministry, it is the ministry to which you have oversight for a time and when they get in there they feel like they are on a path with Jesus Christ, nobody is to say anything about them, not question what they do”.
She added that she hopes that in this administration enough votes are garnered to put term limits for no more than four terms. “Go out and then you could come back because a lot of them would not do like Oliver Cills and Terrence Lettsome… Kenny Rodgers said know when to walk away, know when to run. A lot of them don’t have that courage to leave and go out there, they want to stay there until they are totally unable to do what needs to be done. So term limits would be doing the constituents of any district a service,” the caller added.
However, the same caller later agreed with another caller that the term limit should be five instead of four.
There was a differing opinion on the topic and one caller said that he thinks that if a legislator is doing a great job good they shouldn’t be changed.
The caller added: “Once you are strong, healthy and could move around…if they aren’t doing good you get rid of them.”
Copyright 2012 BVI News, Alliance News Limited. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or distributed.
28 Comments
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Seems like people are forgetting that we only have a population of under 35,000. Please don’t loose sight ot that.Don’t forget that we only have so many BVIslanders who are eligible to run for election.
Though term limits have been and are employed in certain US locales and elsewhere, the jury is still out on its effectivess as a better accountability and governing tool. At this point, I’m not convince that adopting it will result in more effective governance in the BVI.
The BVI is a democracy with a one man/woman vote. During constitutionally due elections every 4 years, every eligible voter has the right to cast 5 votes(4 at large, 1 dist.). Similarly, every qualified and eligible citizen has the right to stand for election. Let voters decide how many terms a member can serve consecutively in the HOA. I think that voters have the requisite political savvy to make changes as they desire. They did as recently as 2007 and 2011. Lets not slaughter our democratic voting right and choices on the altar of our personal frustrations. We should not let the performance of a few cause us to diminish our cherished voting right.
The system works. Many Virgin Islanders stand for election but only few are elected. But at least they had the choice to stand for election; and voters the choice to sound off.
Under term limits, the late iconic H.L. Stoutt would have been term limit out. And we probably would have deprived of the his talent and skill to move the country forward. Term limits should not be used to penalize top performers and deprive the BVI of their contributions. Voters can be the check valve for who serve in the HOA.
well said, E Leonard
Hi Leonard. Interesting take. Obviously I disagree with you totally given my prior comments. Your augment for maintaining the status quo is a tried and old one. First, term limits is simply not solely about “better accountability and governance” as you put it. It’s much more than that. It’s more importantly about limiting corruption in government, and bringing new ideas and views to what should be a true democratic process. We are not a monarchy whereby we have some King or Queen for life who runs our lives. We are a democracy that if truly representative of the people, will open up the process for new ideas and points of views. This cannot be accomplished with the same people running government indefinitely.
Furthermore, term limits does not “slaughter our democratic voting rights and choices”, nor does it “diminish our cherished voting rights.” The fact is as you know, term limits does not in any way affect our voting rights or a persons ability to vote. That’s is simply factually incorrect. Having politicians voted into office election after election is simply not true democracy. It may seem democratic in that voters selected them, but it really is not by definition a true democracy when you have the same faces being elected election after election. As I indicated in my earlier post, the era of the late Stout was one of the past. We are beyond that era, and living in differing times. Mr. Stoutt served his purpose, and served it well. We don’t need that today.
With regard to ” penalizing top performers and deprive(ing) the BVI of their contributions”, term limits should not be looked simply in that way. There is nothing about term limits that preclude a top performers from being re-elected until of course when their time limit is up. They simply cannot run for ever, and they can serve in other capacities in society. I am not one of those people who believe that having the same people running government ad nauseam is good for ANY country unless you are a closeted communist. Diversity is always good, and in politics and a democratic country, a diversity of ideas is always better for the populace.
Finally, I don’t buy this notion that our country is too small for term limits. Whatever the term limits are, be it 8 years or whatever, there will always be candidates who are willing and capable of running for office. But we should not continue this notion that only a few can govern us. It’s a dangerous notion. We either have a democracy or we don’t.
Addenum:
Leonard, forgot to mention I am one of those people who have always appreciated, respected, and agree with your views which are typically well thought out. I just happen to have a different take on this one. But no love lost. I know that you are a mature person who would not take my disagreement with you on this issue personally. Take care.
Ray, first let me say that your comments are always balanced, informative and inspiring. Appreciate your taking valuable time to share your views, ideas and philosophy with fellow Virgin Islanders, and the rest of the world.
Nonetheless, clearly, you and I have a healthy, civil, and principled disagreement over term limits in the BVI. No problem with our differing point of views. Differing point of views are healthy for our democracy. Cannot imagine a BVI with no diversity. I have stated my views on term limits so I will not restate them. Instead, I will comment briefly on democracy,
The following is a quote from your comment: “We either have a democracy or we don’t”.
Well, democracy is a means for people to choose their leaders and hold them accountable for their policies and conduct in office. Power flows from the electorate to members of government who holds power only temporarily. The BVI has a representative democracy and elect members to the HOA either by simple plurality or by majority vote.
Virgin Islanders are highly capable of electing members to the HOA. And can effectively used their vote as a check valve to control how long any member stays in the HOA. In your comment, you expressed concerns about some members getting elected election after election.
These politicians cannot vote themselves into power;they are voted in by either a plurality or a majority of their fellow citizens. Is not this democracy? We may not always agree with their choice. Nevertheless, it is democracy at work. Used effectively, the vote somewhat lowers the playing field for the poor, the unconnected, as well as others.
Have the current system fail the BVI? Did not the electorate speak boldly and send shock waves throughout the political landscape on 07/11/11? Again, the electorate is capable of exacting term limits on members. True, politics should be free of corruption. But is term limit the best way to control this problem. Strict, no nonsense policies/laws should be put in place with severe penalties, i.e., barring members from the HOA and other top level government position…etc for violations. Is term limits the best course of action to keep the HOA fresh, energized, current, and forward thinking. Ray, you and I disagree but hopefully the majority of our Virgin Isalnders will decide.
Thanks for responding Leonard. While we disagree, I do agree with your very last statement in that “hopefully the majority of our Virgin Islanders will decide”.
Despite our discussions here, I don’t see that coming about any time soon either on the part of the public nor the politicians. Indeed, I have seen few politicians who vote against their own interest. Furthermore, if I am reading the public sentiment on this correctly, I do not sense this matter is a priority for them at the moment.
Anyway, take care Leonard. Always look forward to reading your posts/commentaries.
Term limits should be invoked on the voters. You elect idiots twice and you lose your right to vote!
Limits,,,,i lie ur post,,,lol…fo real
Limits,,,,i like ur post…lol…lol…lol
You do have term limits, as many VIP members recently found out. If they are doing the job and doing it well, let them continue to be ELECTED to another term. Of course, a good idea may be to suspend ferry service 48 hours before an election, so all the “paid” voters would have higher expenses and probably would not show up.
I’m not sure that makes sense in the BVI, because there are only so many people running for office every 4 years. Even if they serve two consecutive terms and get voted out for one term, chances are they may go right back in after that. The change wouldn’t be that drastic.
Its a small country so I would say three or four terms can suffice. Two would not be enough if they are actually doing a good job and people who are doing a good job are hard to find. So if you find good people you might actually want to keep them for four terms.
I totally agree. i believe this is a jab at ralph. Never met someone who was so stubborn.
“Some of us need to get put out! Some sell their business since they get in power so they have no idea cause they have blinders on, and it is a dangerous thing when you have people who have no business idea making decisions,” Walwyn said.
WALWYN FULL AH #####
HAHA He touched a nerve eh?? HAHAHA!! TEK DAT! Myron for Premier next time, a real bulldog!!
But I wonder who he was talking about with taht one? Whoever get it that had to hurt haha
Guess you were on who got a white envelope
I would say three consecutive terms is the limit. The 9th district will suffer now because of their selfish decision. Hubert is not the best, but he would’ve surely represented better than the elected rep. I feel sorry for Mr. R. T. Oneal, he needs to retire and enjoy the rest of his days in peace, not the stress of politics. It’s shameful that the voters, even seeing his deteriorating health, still put him back for another 4yrs. Absolute rubbish!
I am from the 9th District and could not agree more. It is disgusting to say the least. Mr. O’Neal need to retire so that a bielection could be held. What else does Mr. O’Neal need? The man’s health is failing and his close family should stop his suffering and tell him to step down and relax himself at home or write a few books on the history of politics in the BVI?
“Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”(Lord Acton)
I agree wholeheartedly that there should be term limits not just for “some” legislators, but ALL. Two(2) terms should be enough. Many career politicians tend to lose their way as time goes on. A politician elected to office twice should NOT be able to run again period.
While I appreciate the efforts of those politicians who led the way at a time when there were few of us with the skills and education to do so, we are in a new era now when we have a more agile and educated populate.
Here in the B.V.I., some of these politicians past and present simply remained in office too long and indeed has lost touch with the common man. Their thinking and politics was and is best suited to a previous era, and lagged/lags behind a fast changing world.
Fresh blood with new ideas and vision of doing things is healthy for our democracy. We should embrace term limits if we wish to grow and become a progressive society. As for civil servants, I see it a bit differently. The issue there should be the appropriate retirement age.
Overall, the country can benefit from a periodic systemic cleansing.
Ray you stated that ” While I appreciate the efforts of those politicians who led the way at a time when there were few of us with the skills and education to do so, we are in a new era now when we have a more agile and educated populate.Here in the B.V.I., some of these politicians past and present simply remained in office too long and indeed has lost touch with the common man.
I believe that we can not force fit term limits on all politicians as each case has to judged on a indivual basis. By proof I offer former legislator Keith Flax who is a very educated and skilled person. He long ago lost touch with the common man. Because Flax did not speak, the people spoke, now he is on the outside looking in. Voters grant term limits at the polls.
@Trust Company Worker. Appreciate your comment. My thinking is this: If term limits is going to be considered & enacted, then such limits should be universal and apply to ALL legislators without exception. What would justify term limiting one legislator over another? As such, I do not agree with what was stated in the House that “some” legislators should be term limited. What’s good for the goose should be good for the gander.
With respect to voters granting term limits at the polls, I agree with that; however, I strongly believe term limits would be more beneficial to the entire political system in the long run. Certainly, the polls should always be the ultimate deciding factor in our democracy, however, it is my belief that the political system would benefit most by a periodic systemic cleansing and ridding of career politicians.
Now, you mention Mr. Flax, and the fate he met at the polls. Unfortunately, this will not fix the problem as I see it with career politicians as evidenced by what I see is happening in the 9th. Granted it’s our democratic way, it’s arguable whether the people of the 9th are being best served by having an aging and ailing representative who may be not be up to the task of representing them as he once was. After all, how can one be when their health is failing?
The status quo which allows politicians to become career politicians who don’t know when to gracefully quit is like having a de facto dictatorship within a democracy. I think in this day and age, we can do better, and our country will be better served with a change in leadership at the various levels on a periodic basis.
Ray, wonder what your view is on the previous Chief Stoutt who was in there for donkey years but a different cut of cloth from the rest?
Well, during the late Stoutt’s tenure, those were different times. We had a much smaller population, less educated electorate, and not many quality eligible persons to run for office. Keep in mind also that our local democracy historically is quite young.
One can argue that the former late Chief Minister served us well during the times he did; however, as I indicated in my original post, times have changed. There is absolutely no need to have the same people elected election after election to the same office until they either die in office or become incapacitated to the point they cannot do their jobs.
Term limits could bring about the best in our politicians as they will know their tenure has a time stamp on it during which they do the peoples work with a greater zeal, transparency, and honesty to ensure their final term. As I indicated, eight years (two terms) sounds just about right to me. Fresh blood, fresh ideas is healthy for our democracy. Those who are term limited do not have to fall off the planet once their tenure is over; they can contribute to society in other ways.
There is no doubt that some of these career politicians are well intended, but I see some of these men as simply living in another era who and are unable to see the world or respond to it it’s rapid changes. They may have the political wisdom or may be politically locally savvy, but quite often, those old school politicians don’t have the benefit of modern education. On a national stage in this global economy, I believe this places the country at a disadvantage at the negotiating table, and does the country an overall disservice. I don’t think the point I am making will be readily be seen by some unless one sees the result in action.
Term limit should be two. No more. Take a stand from Uncle Sam.
Which country is in more problems and trouble than the US? Take a page from who? No thank you!
Three (3) consecutive terms and you are out! If you do 2 and get put out you can come back and do another 2 or 3. So long as it is not consecutive.
For some reason I am not being allowed to like your comment right now but I do like your comment.
there are some politicians that do the country really well
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