Cline willing to go to war with UK over same-sex marriage proposal for BVI
Bishop John Cline has expressed his willingness to resist the United Kingdom once more if they push for the territory to legalise same-sex marriage.
“They (the UK) have not come down on us [yet] but it is coming, and they are expecting us to comply with that also… [But] that is not the will of the people of the BVI,” Bishop Cline has said.
“We believe that marriage is, as the bible states, between a man and a woman and not a man and a man, or a woman and a woman, or a woman and a dog. We will not roll over on this one. [It] would undermine our moral standing of the BVI and the family,” Bishop Cline added.
The British government legalised same-sex marriages in the UK around March 2014. Some four years later, Lord Tariq Ahmad — the UK Minister responsible for Overseas Territories (OTs) — said Britain had plans to make it mandatory for its OTs to legalise same-sex marriage too.
When asked if he was willing to lead the charge to challenge the UK if the need arose, Cline said “absolutely”.
The outspoken clergyman had placed himself between the UK and the BVI once before when he formed a committee that organised a massive territorial protest against Britain as it relates to their highly-controversial public registers of company beneficial ownership policy.
Cline along with others led a protest and a widescale anti-public registers petition in May 2018. He and his committee had also threatened to involve the United Nations in the matter.
Those actions were part of a series of events involving other players, such as government, that led the UK to consider something of a reprieve as it relates to the registers.
The UK’s Sanction’s and Anti-Money Laundering Act mandates that the BVI must implement public registers by the year 2020. But in a recent statement, Britain’s minister responsible for Overseas Territory’s Lord Tariq Ahmad said an order mandating that the BVI implement the registers by 2023 will be imposed if the territory misses the 2020 deadline. This means the BVI has the option of going a significant three additional years without implementing the dreaded public registers.
Copyright 2024 BVI News, Media Expressions Limited. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or distributed.
But you are happy to take UK tax payer’s money? You realize some of those tax payers are gay. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds!
No where in the bible does it state that marriage is only between a man and a woman. The bible has been perverted and twisted by preachers throughout history to suit their own ends.
Don’t forget there are many versus in the bible that can be interpreted as allowing slavery. But of course you wouldn’t think that is acceptable, today or in the past.
You can’t pick and choose.
The BVI needs to wake up. The world is changing. We can’t discriminate, especially in the age of social media and the internet. Or we will have to face boycotts by tourists and international governments and companies.
Airlines won’t fly here, cruise ships won’t come, companies won’t invest. They won’t want their brands tarnished by bigotry,
That’s fine if you want to go back to the dark ages, Perhaps these preachers would prefer us to go back to tending our goats and going to their churches with question.
You by choice want to live a life that is pleaing in your sight. The almighty has his reason why he created a man and woman in the first place. He could have just created man alone. But alot of us will get a surprise when Jesus the son of God comes back to this earth to give to man thier reward according to thier deeds. It is a sin for a man lusting after another man or a woman likewise for the same sex. If gay marriage is legalize. Then beastiality should legalize, just saying.
There a business persons of difrerent countries are doing business here. I don’t think that it affects the business relationship, whether the BVI is against the gay relationship, they are aware of it. The manin thing the path you choose.
@ Reason.
People like you are so f@#£ing retarded, it blows my mind. Thinking a bloke from the middle east is reincarnating himself 2000 years later to save you, that mindset is insane.
Why don’t you try believing in yourself. Religion exists to control you. Free yourself or you’ll be a slave to this absolute nonsense.
Mind you don’t get a stroke, being angry that some believes in Jesus. Calm down. Hey don’t be a Bigot, be tolerant of other people views, the insults are not necessary.
Nice self projection there bud.
Oh this piece of flesh is probably white so doesn’t count. 1/5th of a human let it blow off steam.
You by choice want to live a life that is pleaing in your sight. The almighty has his reason why he created heterosexuality and homosexuality in the first place. He could have just created man alone.
If God created the universe and we are all his children, who are you to judge his creations?
I agree with most of what you said, but the UK doesn’t send any money this way. What UK taxpayer money?
They just loaned us hundreds of millions of dollars to rebuild from Irma. Who do you think is paying for that?
AND the UK government ‘allow’ us to operate a dodgy offshore financial industry – depriving the UK of tax receipts for earning made in the UK.
AND the UK taxpayer provide many other forms of assistance that cost them a significant amount and us nothing!
If we wanted be fully independent then we should have been saving for a rainy day and paying for the reconstruction ourselves instead of building fancy air conditioned basketball courts and extending runways for no airlines to land.
But we want our cake and eat it too
I’m sorry it doesn’t work like that anymore. People need to wake up.
No they didn’t, they guaranteed the loan not provided the money.
It’s the same thing essentially.
Just because it’s a guarantee doesn’t mean it has no cost to the UK tax payer.
And why should the UK tax payer even bail out the BVI (buy guaranteeing our loans) when we are providing a haven to tax avoiders and criminals further depleting tax revenues in the UK and putting their public services in jeopardy?
Honestly people are walking around with their heads in the clouds.
Its not discrimination. It is his opinion. Its how the Christians were raised. Why is discrimination the first accusation when someone voices their opinion about certain topics? We need to respect each others opinion and culture.
Because he is deny another person the same right as he has – to get married. That’s not just an opinion. That’s discrimination.
Just the same way as denying somebody something based on the color of their skin or their sex.
Would you agree with him if he came out and said women should not be allowed to vote? Should not be allowed to work. Because the bible can be interpreted to same these things too.
And what about if he said black people weren’t allowed to vote?
DISCRIMINATION is DISCRIMINATION!
I hope you see it as discrimination if persons were to be forced to perform the ceremony or the registry staff forced to process documents. Leave us with our beliefs and lifestyle please.
Yes. The EU and the UK and US will leave us to these beliefs.
And we won’t have loan guarantees or even loans to fund rebuilding.
If you want to live a fancy western life, driving your new SUVs, wearing your fancy clothes (most designed by gays btw), talk on you fancy smartphones, watch your soap operas on fancy flat screen tvs, take medicines when you get sick etc then we’ll need to pay for it with foreign money… the BVI has little natural resources, no industry etc, this lifestyle we’ve grown used to is dependent on foreign investment.
But if you want to continue to discriminate with this bigotry then get ready for foreign investment to stop. Then we can turn back the clocks 100 years and go back to tending goats, fishing and going to church for entertainment.
No that’s not discrimination.
You need to go read the definition in the dictionary.
First of all. He cant deny any one a right to anything. He can protest and voice his opinion. However these changes are up to the law and legislators. All in all its still his opinion and his right to defend his principles. Just like it is yours to defend your beliefs. I am in no way discriminating but i am just saying we need to respect each others opinions instead of condemning each other because of disagreements. Everyone is entitles to their opinion and their beliefs
Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion and beliefs.
But when those personal opinions and beliefs cross a boundary and prevent another person from having the same rights as you then it’s called discrimantion.
There are many in this world who believe that we as black people or even women or disabled people deserve to be educated, deserve to have the vote etc etc. What would you call these people? Do you think they are entitled to have these opinions effect the people around them? Is it okay to be told you can’t go to school because of your sex? You can’t have this job because of the color of your skin? You can’t vote because you are deaf?
The UK and the EU countries has the biggest criminals and they are not compliant in the policies they try to endorse.
Christians USED to be raised being told slavery was fine and that blacks were uncivilized savages and sub-human.
Do you think this is okay? Of course not.
And do you think people that treat blacks as second-class citizens and deny them the same rights as others enjoy are not discriminating but just having an opinion. Get real.
Are you saying that a person who has no choice in the amount of melatonin in their skin at birth is the same as a person choosing to be homosexual? Because, if you are, that is a slap to Black people and their struggles.
Yes that’s exactly what I’m saying. So take that slap!
Being gay is not a choice…. all the scientific evidence states this.
Unless you know different. And the only way you would know for certain was if you yourself were gay and you knew this was your choice. If you are not gay then you simply are not qualified to state whether someone else chose to be that way. Did you choose to be ‘straight’?
Why do we as black people, who (as you acknowledge) have struggled so much, deny that other minorities are still struggling in a similar way and then refuse to stand up for all forms of discrimination. We got our freedom and rights so everyone else can go whistle for theirs. All because the church has poisoned our minds on this. And you know why? Because the church hierarchy are the ones with the most shame to hide.
You sound so foolish! Stop. Life comes through a Man and a Woman. Anything other than a man and a Woman is abnormal and backwards.
The Lobsters in the BVI are happy to hear this:
• All that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you. Leviticus 9:10
Cline should occupy his time going go to war against people eating lobster.
Pride, the idea of putting of one’s own desires, urges, wants, and whims before the welfare of other people.
In even more destructive cases, it is irrationally believing that one is essentially and necessarily better, superior, or more important than others, failing to acknowledge the accomplishments of others, and excessive admiration of the personal image or self (especially forgetting one’s own lack of divinity, and refusing to acknowledge one’s own limits, faults, or wrongs as a human being).
Idiocy
I was reading not to long ago that in some countries in Africa twins are being killed and are Cast Away from the village because twin is seen as abnormal, and a curst to the village. They also have another tribe who sees albino people as bad luck to their society, they are scientific evidence to as why both of these phenomenal occurrences happen in nature. But for some reason we as human seem to pick and choose what scientific evidence we will believe and the rest we don’t understand and their is absolutely no evidence to support our claim , we like to say , ” oh God work in mysterious ways “. But when it comes on to homosexuality those people have that Divine powers that they could make up their own sexuality while the rest of us had no choice and must live a cisgender (straight) life style.
No one denied the claim that only a man and a woman could make a baby. We like to make it seem as if the only reason we have sexual activities is to make a child . How many times have you had sex and haven’t had any children come out of that whole process. stop acting like making love and getting married is so solely only to get kids. Stop acting like children will be confused because they have two dads or two moms. ” how will the children feel in school, wouldn’t it be confusessing or be made fun of by the or the kids” – (well it seemed like to me the parenting skills of the other kids need to be questioned. Do kids be going School and confused when they only have one parent a Dad or Mom or someone else is completely raising them??? And if they are made fun of being a child of a single parent or a child that is raised bye care Guardians ,do that legal gaurdian pull that child on the side and tell them what is what??? Children just want to be loved by their parents or by whoever is their Guardians they really Don’t Care who or what or how their Guardian look like. if the kid is born into something that will be the norm for that child.
What UK taxpayer money?The BVI spends its own money and if you’re speaking of the recovery funds, that’s a loan guarantee, not money! They secure the loan and we pay it. GTFOH!
So you think a loan guarantee is FREE? That it has no financial impact or cost to UK tax payer? Please.
If it was free then why didn’t we just guarantee our own loans?
Oh yeah… because nobody trusts us to repay the loans and we have nothing in the bank.
We won’t be able to go with the begging bowl next time we get hit by a hurricane if we are discriminating.
The choice is ours.
Nobody against you being GAY but you sodomites want to FORCE your lifestyle down the general public throat. Miss me with that BS, be gay or whatever just act like your respective gender when engaging the public. Leave the freak show at home. There are places like the fassy part of Jamaica and other places to get married why you have to be able to do it ANY and EVERYWHERE?
100% Agree. This is the part the gets me. They want to figuratively force everyone to accept their lifestyle. Its like if you dont then you are the worse person in the world. That is what I dont agree with.
Number 1 being gay is not a ‘lifestyle’ it’s not a choice.
All scientific research and testimony from gay people supports this. Their sexuality was determined in their mothers womb by hormones.
Did you wake up one day and decide to be straight? No, of course not!
Did we wake up one day and decide to be black or white or whatever race we are. No – we were born like this.
Secondly, nobody is forcing anybody to accept anything.
All that is happening is that same-sex relationships be recognized under law and these people receive the same rights as existing married couples. What does that have to do with you? Do you currently get to personally determine whether all straight couples are allowed to marry each other?
Please remember:
• You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT
Exactly.
It’s there and black and white.
Slavery was promoted and condoned in the Bible.
Cline doesn’t preach this – he chooses to ignore and twist the Bible.
No where in the bible does it state the marriage is only between one and one woman.
And guess what the Bible is not the law. If you want to believe that nonsense that’s up to you – no one is stopping you – but don’t pick and choose and twist things and force your bigotry on others.
How are we a society that don’t tolerate gays? So because I don’t hold your belief I’m a bigot? They are welcomed here, they are not thrown in jail, stoned or murdered. We simple believe in the sanctity of marriage. It’s not the end of the world, get married somewhere else then catch a plane and come home. You would think here is the only place to get married. SMH
Sanctity of Marriage? Please. These islands have more adultery and children born out of wedlock than many places I have been. So don’t even start with what angels we all are. But I don’t care what other people do in their private lives. If they want to marry A and sleep with B and C on the side that’s up to them.
I’m also not worried about gays from elsewhere not being able to marry here – their rights are protected at home. Most civilized countries now protect the rights of ALL their citizens and treat them equally and have outlawed discrimination.
I’m worried about the gays who are our children. Who have no where else to go to marry or to be treated equally and with respect.
This is more about the symbolism. Saying you disagree with another person’s private, personal choice to love who they want and preventing them from having the same rights as you is a dangerous precedent to set.
Someone else might decide to take the vote away from women.
Someone else might decide to not accept a student at college because of the color of their skin.
Have we not learned any lessons from our past?
Do we really want to allow discrimination to be legal and accepted in our society? Just remember the BVI is a tiny place, we are a minority on this planet. If we start openly discriminating then the rest of the world might just decide to discriminate against us.
Look one thing for sure the SOLDIERS FOR SODOMY are out in full fighting gear. Armed with ridiculous anolgies and scenarios.
We are here to save the children!
• If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21
marriage is between a man and a women so for god sake go sit down with this nasty behaviour its sicking
1. God has nothing to do with gay marriage. It is a civil ceremony and its main purpose is legal, to give committed couples of the same sex the same rights as the opposite sex. eg If one falls ill the other may visit them in hospital, run their affairs etc,, inheritance laws, life insurance, power of attorney etc. This is legal recognition of love and commitment between two human beings. Casting it as a direct affront to your particular version of your God, worshipped in a family you happen to have been born into, in a country you did not choose to be born in at a time you had no control over, etc.etc etc …. is just a roundabout way of justifying cruelty to another human being because they’re different.
2. The Bible doesn’t say anything about it being fine to be cruel to people that love each other. It does say a lot of stuff, and Christians are great at cherry picking which parts are the word of God and which to ignore – witness comments above re slavery being just fine all over the Bible; extra judicial killings are encouraged throughout as well as all sorts of vicious cruelty. The believers ignore some but select the high morals and principles they want – then happily destroy good peoples’ lives with them.
3. Nowhere in the Bible does it suggest that it is holy and righteous to make oneself rich by hiding stolen money, or harbouring the ill-gotten gains of thieves and criminals. And yet … BVI financial services …
we christian don’t pick and chose verses in the bible to suit us.
A sin is a sin and we (christians) have to call it out.
Ezekiel 33:7-9
7 “Now as for you, son of man, I have appointed you a watchman for the house of Israel; so you will hear a message from My mouth and give them warning from Me. 8 When I say to the wicked, ‘O wicked man, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require from your hand. 9 But if you on your part warn a wicked man to turn from his way and he does not turn from his way, he will die in his iniquity, but you have delivered your life.
Scriptures talks about homosexualty
Romans 1:27
and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Leviticus 20:13
Verse Concepts
‘If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
Romans 1:26
For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
Let us take heed.
….ok….
This man is a joke.
All these fishy international companies are set up in the BVI to dodge taxes and launder criminal money from Europe and the US. That’s why they want to remain secret.
So this righteous Pastor, who cares so much about the false sanctity of marriage (because most married people are having affairs anyway), doesn’t have a problem taking c******l money. Tax avoiders and money launderers. MONEY MONEY MONEY.
The NDP will never side you with this and we all know why
and i see so many lesbians and gays attending that church?
Send a list of those les so i can prey on them.
Signed,
girl in the closet.
It is so so true
he should preach and tell them to come out of that lifestyle
he’s to h——————.
Your point has nothing to do with his opinion… He knows who they are… They know who they are… and everybody knows what is acceptable and not acceptable in that church!
The church is the place they need to be. I pray a change will occur in their hearts and they be freed from the bondage and ravages of sin. Come on in we are glad to have you!
As soon as Myron win it’s a go and I would like to be the 1st to say…..TIS GOOD.
I don’t expect this kind of talking from a man of God. Whilst I do not engage in same sex anything, I have learned to accept the world for what it is and people for who they are. As long as they do not trouble me, I won’t trouble them. Life is too short to worry about how others live.
Speak for yourself cause who wants to see annoucement onlione and caravan going down the road with 2 MAN or 2 WOMAN acting like a real married family miss me with that BS.
I won’t be seeing it, because I always look away when I run across two men carrying on like that. It is a case of out of sight is out of my mind for me, and everybody can go on with their own lives. I have bigger problems to worry about such as living around thieves and murderers and child molesters.
“We will not roll over on this one. [It] would undermine our moral standing of the BVI and the family,” Bishop Cline added.”
Oh Boy, do we really want to rely on Bible verses?
• Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. Ephesians 6:5 NLT
Bishop Cline, do you serve Christ? Bishop Cline, who is your earthly master? Bishop Cline, my children are their own masters! You can quote me on that! Call me Ismael!
Chapter23.
Thou doth protest too much. Mr. Cline needs to have a seat. He is messing with my gaydar. Sick of him on this issue. He can’t seem to keep his mouth close; it’s always open catching flies.
Moral standing, and the family? Please. Have a seat.
We are talking about the BVI here where a large percentage of children are being born out of wedlock & single moms are prevalent, where married men frequently have women and children on the side, where grown men are molesting children, where robbing is unfortunately common, and where there are over 3 dozen unsolved murders.
Why the focus on gay marriage as oppose to those more prevalent issues that is impacting the lives of people in the BVI? How many people comparatively speaking wants to marry their same sex partners?
He seems to be obsessed with this divisive issue and for some reason is determined to keep it in the forefront when people are not even talking about it. When people behave this way, my gaydar starts going off.
I have read and seen so many people like him who call them selves so called pastors and godly men only to have a closet of dark secrets of their own.
I understand the psychology here. This guy is not fooling me.
Mr. Cline, you are free to believe whatever you wish including God which many do not believe yet not suggesting you shouldn’t. You have no right to tell others how to live their lives.
Want to fight for something? The BVI has plenty of other more important social ills for you to choose from. Have your pick.
Stop wasting your time worrying about who marries who. The UK has no time for you on this issue they have already addressed.
They have heard these arguments from people like you before prior to their own decision making. So long as the BVI remains an OT, the handwriting is on the wall.
Your protest will be fruitless.
I smell a nasty g–
Well said.
You have to wonder about those that are so against this and that.
Mind your own business and and live and let live. The world would be a better place without the hate that comes out of these people’s mouths. So many serious problems facing these islands and this is what he’s worried about. Come on!
I have no problem listening the views of others. Why go so far as to dictate what persons can protest about? If he wants to protest about this its his democratic right. You are welcome to concentrate you time on the other issues that you have listed as more important to you. Respect each others right to protest.
Mr. Cline can protest all he wishes. No one is suggesting he cannot do so. I think he is wasting his time, and his protestations will fail. He will get no where with this. Take that to the bank.
He and folks like yourself should not expect to say what you wish and get no response. Expect some push pack/counter-protest from this divisive rhetoric.
Again, he needs to have a seat, preferably in the back of his church, and check himself.
Persons that don’t agree with your views will be labeled as divisive. Expect to have persons agreeing him. Why should we be pounded over our heads for our stance and told to shut up. State you views without trying to silence others. You don’t see persons telling you to take a seat and shut up. Your anger is showing.
Anger? No. Im a very calm person. I don’t get angry especially about matters like these.
I just state my case. As I said the so called Bishop can protest all he wishes from sun up till sun down. He can however expect a response.
I was told many times stories but without the facts cannot say they are anything other than stories. But I tend to agree that that to focus on protesting so much about a simple genuine thing called love, and trying to force a decision about who can and can’t make their own choice in whom they love, no matter sex, race, religion, status …well, it says a lot about the protestor. I believe those that try to remove free will from others and create barriers are bound by their own insecurities. Jealousy that they can’t feel free to be their own true self so they try to prevent others from doing so. They are bound by man-made rules borne out of fear. They need to supress what lies within themselves; so they feel empowered to not fear themselves. To be truly free and loving is to be accepting. There is no harm in the love between same sex couples. There is no harm in them marrying. There is no harm in true love. There is however, harm in trying to deny that love or preventing that love from existing. The ungodly is the one trying to stop the expression of true love and devotion to care for another. Love makes the world a better place.
Really, who other people bed and wed is none of your business. Focus on being a better person yourself and treating others with love and respect.
You don`t Have a point. People live how they want
and the creator give them a choice good or bad heaven or hell. All we are saying we ought to make our choice and not having anyone enforcing their stuff on our people. Not even the creator does that and we will rebuff that kind of behavior
The outspoken bishop has been quiet recently! This sudden outburst makes me wonder if he’ll be throwing his hat into the political ring soon as the self appointed “Moral Saviour” of the BVI! He’s h—— personified in my opinion when you consider his own personal l— – which lets face it totally goes against scripture! I guess we’ll be hearing more from him as he bolsters his fanatical fan base yet again….and try again to become a credible political candidate – no chance!
You on a random topic again… sprinkled with insults. Looks like someone has an axe to grind, tell me how its working for you.
Not insults actually – wake up and smell the coffee with some of these religious hypocrites…..
Hypocrisy and Life ? By any chance?
Sawdom and Gomorrah
Cardcaptors of the Clow,
Expect the unexpected now!
What does this mean? Cardcaptord of the clow.
Ok Christian people. So vocal about same sex marriage when adulterous is the one that made God’s top 10 list. I don’t hear you all yelling about that. Funny how you pick and choose what you like from the bible.
My priorities and your priorities do not have to be the same. Concentrate and what is important to you and do something about it? Can a person not protest in peace without someone trying to hush them? This is what democracy is about
Protest in peace you say? This man of God is talking about going to war, and you call that protesting in peace?
Don’t be slow, its a figure of speech which most picked up. I for one don’t think he intended violence.
If you truly believe that, you are one very ignorant blogger.
Who sang that one? We all know what can happen to opposing views on this issue.
Still NDP new leader is going to back this bill, here in The VI there are politicians who … fully support that life.
Hope VI can legalize Cannabis before they push a bill for same sex.
For me smoking a j is better than being happy.
what about adulterous marriages?
Maybe you should pick that one up and champion the cause for faithfulness. That’s a problem in our society too
This antiquated drivel is why Religion has no place in society. Not that I’d necessarily force the hand of a pastor to over see a union he discerns to be contrary to his belief system. It is your right to worship as you see fit after all. My quarrel is with the rights as governed by law afforded to persons who are married which should be accessible to every human being independent of the sexual orientation. You are going to war with even those persons who decide to circumvent the religious nonsense and take to the registry to afford their family a quality of life all law biding, productive citizens of a country deserve! Does a man who spends his life with another man not deserve to collect his spouse’ social security benefits? Would a child of an abusive home find less love in household with two mothers who intend to adopt? Does your war make their decision/life better or worst?
Religion has always and will always fail miserably to cater to the needs of humanity in its entirety. It is for this reason religion seeks in many instances to disqualify & dehumanize those who live contrary to its medieval philosophies. We are fast approaching an over populated planet, yet some people cling to the obtuse notion that same sex marriages can’t produce children & therefore are an abomination! A simple look at the world would impart evidence that less reproduction may be a “God send” (pun intended)……But, religion isn’t about looking at the world, its about living in a Bubble trying desperately to elude the reality of a world directly contradicting everything you’ve invested a lifetime believing!!!
Well said!!!
The reality is that gays and transgender persons are mentally disturbed or possessed. Yes I said it. It’s good to see persons are not going to be hoodwinked and bullied into believing otherwise. What’s next? Marriage to animals or child predators being allowed to have sex with children once they consent? I guess it’s a child’s right to choose is next right?
Neither children or animals have the ability to consent thus nullifying your argument in its entirety….I do however recognize your willingness to liken homosexual beings to animals and sexual deviants, it speaks to what I mentioned earlier about the need for religion to dehumanize ppl whose practices in life may not be Malevolent, but simply contrary to your belief! This is the way they justified slavery!
Ironically, secular instruments like the legal system, threatening incarceration is likely the only reason people like you wouldn’t kill a few gays, am I lieng? I mean why stop at their right to get married? Why do they deserve to live? If they’re possessed I’m CERTAIN we can find MANY biblical references to justify stoning or burning them….can you put a number to the women murdered by the church throughout history because they were thought to be witches?
Religion is a disease that has metastasized through the ages nurished by ignorance and the fears, struggles & uncertainties inherent to the human condition!
Yes the gay lifestyle is a sexual preversion and a mental disease. A gender change surgery is nothing but insane!
Nevertheless we don’t harass them and murder gays in the BVI, your rant is dramatic, extreme and over the top…not that I’m surprised…sigh.
There are many places they can get married it’s as simple as catching the ferry. While you are at it stop comparing illegal gay marriage to slavery. Their so called struggle can’t compare.
As said before religion impedes your ability to see the world, do you know how many species of animals indulge I’m homosexuality? Of course not because you see it and say something stupid like we living in the last days. Simply to avoid the reality that it a natural state of being not perversion!
Imagine we’re in 2019 and you can’t understand the correlation between different forms of discrimination which amount to the same lack of empathy for fellow human beings. The point since you clearly missed it was; the law, a man made system imposing consequences for criminal behavior is the only reason you wouldn’t kill a gay. You don’t view them as equal human beings which is the basis for the enslavement and murder of people throughout the bible! The bible verses that teach how to enslave, drown, burn or stone ppl to death for their so called “perversions” still exist in black and white. The only reason you’re religious but not a murderer is WE’D LOCK YOUR A** UP! And even that doesn’t deter some of you crazies!!! I will not allow you to distance yourself from your hate, simply because you’re a passive aggressive brand of bigot! Your disease has manifested in violence for a millenia! Your failure to see how gays are the modern days slaves (allbeit their plight moderated by the modern legal system is a tad less barbaric) is a symptom of that which afflicts you!
All established religions have safeguards built in to assist believers in diluting reality and clinging desperately to baseless nonsense. It is the constant evolution of our understanding of our world that is constantly taking ground from religion. Knowledge is to ignorance what light is to darkness after all. Always remember that once it was illegal to be black, the thought offended and disgusted the privileged among us same as its now repulsive to the majority to be gay and married. Open your eyes, indifference is really what religion is warring against! And though we are all biologically similar, or psychological I differences are innate! Religion was never designed to unite us all based on that fact alone!
P.S I wouldn’t be surprised if you e metastasized nothing from my argument, religion is a powerful blinding force!
Save the seed? Them guys save all their seeds in the back pocket, so what his problem?
And HE is the protector of the sanctity of marriage? Bishop Cline has always lived in a glass house.
Set of nasty people have no shame have some respect for your A****S PEOPLE
If John Cline does “go to war” with the UK, I hope he makes clear that he represents his views and those of his parishioners. Not necessarily those of the whole of the BVI.
Seems a bit extreme to go to war over this. Besides, the UK is responsible for the BVI’s foreign relations so the BVI lacks capacity to declare war.
There’s no such thing as same sex marriage. Accept it kiss our country goodbye.
Lol. So, gross mismanagement of finances; widescale corruption; victimization of locals and Caribbean people alike; slow recovery from Irma but same-sex marriage is what will destroy the country? Got it.
That kind of stupidness leads to what they have in America. Transgender a they dress like the other sex. Yeah even go to work as men in women’s clothing and makeup. You want your chikdren to grow up in that craziness!? You want to be like Americans? In America mental illness is now accepted as normal. People stand up for truth.
@TJ, stop talking s..t that is not true. America take mental issues very serious. There is not a single mental facility in the BVI. And,America donot housed people with mental issues in prison. You sound like a real fool. Now you see why the outside don’t think much of the BVI. To much ignorance.
Transgender , even after sex changes, commit suicide in far higher numbers than the general population. America is drunk with the pc culture. And, people who are mentally ill are not getting the help they need. So shut up about America until you know the facts.
Fly to the UK Mr Cline and sort this out and tell the UK Gov what a big player you are.
Oh! word of warning Mr Cline the UK has an extradition agreement with the USA.
But being a good honest man I’m sure you will still be going with no need to worry at immigration.
…You got the wrong Cline.
We are right here waiting for him to make his move. For real, Mr.Cline please think about the EXTRADITION AGRÉEMENT between UK and America. Go ahead Mr.Cline,bounce the ball.
Your point. Bishop Cline has no criminal or immigration issues with the UK or the US. There are some other Clines that do though so you might have the wrong Cline.
This territory has a whole host of problems at this time – this is not one of them.
Money, jobs, education, water, sewage, power, fraud, theft and environmental rape of our lands. Those are problems that need serious attention. This is some BS smoke and mirrors designed by some jumped up “man of the cloth” to get him some attention. Deal with the real issues that impact all BVIslanders or sit the heck down.
I agree but there are other more important battles to fight. This will be a losing battle regardless use it as a negotiating tool instead of war or words with no purpose.
There are many more people in the BVI that will fight against this issue with him. Many more pastors and churches also. If the national church runs and hides and stays silent on this issue, they might as well close down. The BVI is still a Godly nation, despite the challenges. This will require another demonstration. It will force a referendum and the will of the people will prevail. The BVI will be a beacon to the rest of the Caribbean and the world on this issue. We will not discriminate against gays but we will not accept their way of life as our standard. Marriage is between a man and a woman. That’s it.
Good. Have a referendum. If your outdated, bigoted beliefs are more important than wages and jobs and putting food on the table and loving your neighbor.
It’ll be all over CNN and BBC etc. You will certainly be a beacon but for all the wrong reasons.
Did you not see what happened in the US to Indiana, North Carolina etc when they tried to resist gay rights. Boycotts have hit them hard.
Do you need reminding that much of the travel/tourism and marketing/media industries are made up of a creative gay people that will have no problem promoting a boycott of the BVI. Nobody will touch us with a 10ft stick. And good luck asking for help from the rest of the world the next time we get smashed by a hurricane. Maybe Putin or China might come to the rescue, there will be a bigger price to pay for that.
But hey, if that makes you happy, stopping two people who love each other from having the same rights as you, then you go ahead and open that can of worms. It’ll be the death of these islands.
So we must be scared into allowing our society to go into moral degradation. Well so be it. We lived at a lower standard before and we can go back to that to be at peace. You can leave. This is crazy that you ask us to give up our beliefs in order to maintain our way of life. Really? We will not accept it and we accept the consequences.
Having gay marriage is opening a can of worms. That’s the American lifestyle…moral decay and bullying Christians. I see you are trying the scare tactics here.
Bishop Cline you don’t mind the noise..at least he’s willing to “stand” for what he believes in.. He’s not weak to hide behind a curtain.. I agree with all you’ve said and no I am not a member of his church.. I believe in God and I embrace Godly principles.. yes the BVi as like other countries have its ills, but we r known to be a Christian society.. we r not perfect and no means I am condoning sinful behavior for sin is sin but men with men and woman with woman is an abomination to God… as a community some of us have gone away from our Godly principles and every person will give account for themselves on that day, but that does not mean that as a people we have to accept behaviors that we deem is not good for our country (like everything else)..I believe hurricane Irma was a warning.. we better change our ways and stop living so sinfully.. if a next time come it could be worst than a cat 5 hurricane .. so yes Bishop many others will march with you for us not to embrace gay marriage..
Didnt realized that they have so many gay people in the BVI, Pastor make a statement and they all come out like cockroaches . SMH
It’s ridiculous and offensive to assume that people who support those who wish to engage in same sex marriages are gay or “cockroaches”.
There are white people who are not racist and support black causes. There are men who supports women’s rights who are not sexist, and there are people of all races, and sexual orientations, who support those who wish to marry whomever they love. Many of them are parents who have gay children. Your mindset is narrow.
The reason these people do this is because of their own senses of right and wrong and what they believe to be fair play. They believe in minding their their own businesses, and allowing people to live their lives as they see fit so long as they are not hurting others. They believe in not treating others as second class citizens.
I’m going to assume you are black and unmarried. How would you like it if someone tells you that you cannot marry a white person whom you fell in love with as it was in the 50’s? You wouldn’t take well to it one bit, would you?
Is your pastor married? Is he divorced? Does he have kids? I hope God blesses him with a wonderful gay son or daughter so that he can appreciate what unconditional love is if he allows himself.
We are all wasting our time on this topic anyway, because your bishop does not have the power to do a darn thing about what the U.K. has decided. Empty barrels make the most noise, and right now, that’s all he is doing…making a whole heap of noise. IMO, the bishop is at war with himself.
Unconditional love has nothing to do with allowing a society to degrade. We love our criminal children too but we cannot legalize murder. Come on! There are standards for society. We should not discriminate against them, I agree but to extend that to allow marriage between same sex, you are way off base if you think that is what love can and should do. Love must have reason and still have a standard, as unconditional as it may be.
Showing your own gay child unconditional love is degrading society? You are full of it. Nonsense. In your case, you need to be blessed with a gay child as well so you can understand where I am coming from.
By the way, how dare you equate gay kids with criminal ones? They are not one in and of the same. Goes to show your narrow mindset.
People like you is why I stopped supporting organized religion. The church is too filled with hypocrites, and I loathe hypocrites.
Not a dime of mine goes to support you people discriminating against others in the name of God. Forgot about any 10% tide.
The God I know is a loving one. Work on your own sins, and stop worrying about other peoples’.
Keep up. The person is saying that we could love our kids and disagree with their decisions. Yes God is a loving God I’m so thankful He is.
All I know is committing murder is wrong and being gay is wrong. That’s my belief. It’s obvious that you don’t see being gay as wrong. Guess what Anonymous, I’m are okay with that.
Thank you. Well said. Nonsense about unconditional love. Foolishness spewing from his/her fingers. Like a parent can’t disagree with a child lifestyle and still love them.
By not allowing them to have their relationship legally recognized (marriage) you are discriminating! Period!
What business is it of anyone else except the individuals wanting to get married.
How would you like it if you had to get permission from everybody else to marry the the person of your choice. If these people could pick any reason to deny you your wishes based on your behavior that they don’t personally agree with.
You are showing your ignorance. Being tolerant does not mean a person is gay. I am one such person. It is called liberating yourself from mental slavery. You should try it.
Homosexuality is part of the world, so get over it. I know it is difficult for closed minds, because I was once that way. What two consenting adults do between themselves is their own business. Leave all judgement to God, for the ones who are talking about how much of a Christian society we are.
As long as these same sex people are not breaking any laws, or endangering other persons, I say let them be. Get over it. This is 2019, not 1919. Over and out!
Allowing people to live their own lives and be part of society is the christian thing to do.
I don’t approve of homosxuality and I don’t think it should be call a marriage.
But there is room in my mind for two people to get the societal benefits of marriage.
This man wrote a book insinuating adultery is ok. Is he a good messenger for this?
Maybe this link needs to be forwarded to the press in the US and Europe.
I’m sure a lot of people (particularly those who are gay, or who have gay friends or gay children) would be very interested in what we think of them. Maybe they might even reconsider their vacation options if they’re foolishly thinking of visiting us.
What? So are you trying to say that only the gay community and their supporters are the only ones that travel and have money to invest? Tell me should we be bullied into something that we don’t want? We will respect you when you visit and show you a great time while you are here but we don’t believe in gay marriage. Why is this a big deal? They don’t have to get married here. Bully mentality rampant on this blog buddy.
Why is this a big deal? This is what the whites in South Africa were saying about giving the blacks rights. This is what white americans were saying to MLK back in the 60s. Some people just live in a bubble. We live in a global world now. The BVI has chosen this path too.
I’m not saying at at all it’s only the gay community that travel and invest here. That’s the whole point. You think you can bully a minority (gays) in the BVI just the same way white americans used to (and still do) bully blacks and other minorities. Are you saying that this form of discrimination (racism) is unacceptable and yet other types are okay? Think about it.
This is not primary about gay tourists, this is about gay BVI islanders who living in fear of bigots and discriminated against. The global community will stand up in their support if news comes out that the government here is denying them equal rights… just as the world sanctioned the South African apartheid regime and brought down the white minority government helping Mandela come to power.
And the fact the vast majority of big global companies (Disney, Carnival, Royal Caribbean, American Airlines, Delta, Jet Blue, Virgin, Sunsail, Apple, etc etc (the list is endless) now have ZERO tolerance of ALL discrimination meaning they will not support the BVI if we decide to become the beacon of bigotry and intolerance and hate. The BVI will become a liability to their image.
Nobody is bullying us. We will have a choice. Either except these changes or we can kiss goodbye to our tourism industry and financial services. If you call that bullying then too bad. Grow up.
We don’t have to fall into moral decay to prosper. Nor do we have to accept the US and Europe foolish changes. Our tourism and financial services will thrive and flourish without gay marriage. Colonialism at best still trying to dictate what we do here and bully us into submission and then call us bigots. I say you are the bigot who is intolerant to our way of life!
Well just see what happens if you decide to protect your ‘way of life’. Which by the way is not what is happening here – you’re trying to prevent our sons and daughters from from having the same life as us. Nobody is changing YOUR life. Just trying to improve someone else life to match YOURS. Where is the harm in that?
It’s the exact same thing that WOMAN went through, and the exact same thing BLACKS went through years ago.
But now we have equality we are trying to deny it to another minority. People should be ashamed. The church should be ashamed. As we all know better
The same thing that happened to white apartheid South Africa- – they wanted to protect their way of life. But the world stood firm and told them it was wrong! Was that bullying?
Remember that it was the colonial powers that brought us from our motherland Africa and enslaved us and taught us their religion.
A religion that condones and promotes slavery. A religion that said africans were animals and not worthy of the rights of man.
And yet we swallowed this religion happily.
And then remember it was the colonial government that declared our ancestors should be emancipated and treated as equals.
I assume you agree with that colonial dictat… that our ancestors be freed. Many argued back then that freeing slaves would lead to moral decay and that the it was a foolish change. The same argument you are now using, what a coincidence.
Of course, if you disagree with this then maybe you should go back in time to when the church was all-powerful and we were all slaves.
I’m not a bigot because I’m not stopping you from going to church, I’m not stopping you from marrying the person you love. You can do what you want in your private life. But yes. If you choose to stop anyone else practicing the religion of their choice, or from marrying the person they love or anything else that you yourself are legally entitled to do then yes, you are a bigot!
He seems very focussed on this issue.
Sometimes when people are the biggest haters about a particular thing it is due to personal feelings of shame.
I agree with you 100% except your last question. Did you read the book? He did not say that. He said monogamy is not natural but with Christ-filled spirit you can work to achieve a monogamous living.
He should stand for election with this as his platform and see how many votes he gets.
Perhaps this clown needs to be reminded who introduced the christian religion to his ancestors.
The protestant church. The same same church that used to claim black people were sub-human and that slavery was acceptable. The same church that introduced this ‘homosexuality is a sin’ doctrine
If you believe one teaching then you have no reason to deny the other.
War all you want bishop, Britain will pass it as a law for us whether you are on side or not.
The British will not get excited about you Bishop.
Why does a person smoking ganja not have the same right? Why are we so foolish? We need to keep quiet, we have no credibility.
Why this c****+++g c**-a****t nuh go hush he r**s up! Why!Why!Why! Chupes mon…
FEMALE BVI PASTORS WHO ARE UNMARRIED AND WITH CHILDREN FROM DIFFERENT MEN. MALE BVI
PASTORS WITH CHILDREN FROM DIFFERENT WOMEN, DIVORCED OR DOWN LOWS.
STOP HYPOCRISY. YOU DO NOT HAVE MORALS.
I honestly believe that some people are born gay. I know a lot of the religious people don’t believe that but whatever.I don’t care what two people do behind closed doors once you’re an adult and both consent to it.But here’s my concern with this gay liberation movement.There is a family structure in place as we know it from school days,nuclear family,single parent family,extended family,childless family,grandparents family.If we start teaching kids that there is now a gay family structure what do you think that would do. Imagine a child at primary school learning about a gay family structure and thinking it’s normal to be gay and here it is a recognized family structure.So if they some how physically like someone of the same sex then to them it wouldn’t be unusual to act on it and try to some how be intimate with that person. My point is we have to be careful as to the consequences of having kids taught gay lifestyles are the norm. It’s difficult still cause you don’t want to discriminate against gays but let’s be honest here it’s not normal human behavior to be gay. I know that statement may offend some people but it’s true. That doesn’t mean I hate them or wouldn’t deal with gay people but I just can’t for the life of me understand why someone’s sexual orientation has to be known and have so much power to do whatever they want. Well,we know a lot of rich and powerful people are gay so no surprise with all the noise they making to get what they want. But what about all the other people that get no rights or are discriminated,where are their rights.Just shows how the world has changed to whatever the people in highest position of power wants. The sad thing is they will get what they want,they always do. But people remember this the same way you want people to respect you as a gay man or woman people would like to be respected as a straight man or woman.What I mean by that is we should want the same things but what we are seeing happening is the gay people want to be always recognized for everything creating a wonderful impression to all of all the great things they are doing and will continue to do.Let’s first try making people understand that we need to respect peoples private lives and not discriminate against one type of people. I just don’t like how they are forcing this gay agenda throughout the media,music,tv,clothing,internet etc.
All these arguments were used against blacks in the civil rights movement.
Whites shouldn’t share water fountains with blacks. Blacks weren’t allowed to sit in the seats as whites. Whites weren’t allowed to marry blacks. Blacks weren’t allowed to go to the same schools as whites. Blacks weren’t allowed to vote like the whites. The white’s didn’t want their children being perverted and dragged down by black children or seeing couples of different races and that it would become the norm for blacks to share the same spaces as white people.
Your argument is no different. it was used to dehumanize black people for generations… they weren’t worthy of being considered equal. Quite frankly is shameful.
This doesn’t even have anything to do with sex. It’s about the legal right to love the person of your choosing and have that relationship recognized under law so you receive the same rights as existing married couples. Nothing about sex in there. Two people can marry and never have sex… there’s no law saying you must have sex and bear children when you a married
Stop insulting Black people. Stop diluting their struggle. By using it to politicize abnormality.
Gays can love and cohabitate. But marriage is between a man and a woman. Gays should get their own term and not use the heterosexual term.
There isn’t any argument! If you think that God wired you up wrong just talk to God about that mistake! Buy to ram goat and watch your flock multiply.
The mentally sick calling themselves well are now forcing everyone to believe a lie and agree with them. I saw a video of a transgendered male having a hissy fit, kicking up displays at a store because the clerk called him sir. He looked like a man, sounded like a man but was wearing a skirt.
The crazies who live in “la la land” are trying to now to force their delusions down our throats. No one stoping you from being gay go right ahead! Don’t make it your mission to confuse the young and make weird into normal. Keep your delusions to yourself!
It’s take one step to head in the wrong direction. We don’t want gay marriage, gender neutral bathrooms or gender neutral
babies.
Do you have separate bathrooms in your house?
One for the females only and another for the males only?
I don’t. We all share one bathroom men, women, boys and girls. I’d call that gender neutral. And it works just fine.
The only reason we have gender assigned public TOILETS is to stop straight men from sexually assaulting/raping women and molesting girls.
Of course, male only public toilets were a well-known place for men to meet each other and share sexual experiences without their wives and girlfriends seeing them. Maybe you want to keep gender assigned public toilets for this reason.
I agree with the Pastor. It’s nastiness. We don’t want it here. Let them keep it in Europe
Let them keep it in Europe?
You do know that homosexuality is prevalent in all races and cultures right across the globe.
There are gays living and working here in the BVI. They are our sons and daughters. They are our sisters and brothers. Our cousins. Even our mothers and fathers. Or our grandmothers or grandfathers.
They are working to contribute to our economy. They teaching our children in our schools. They are nursing our sick in the hospital. They are protecting us from harm on the streets. They are growing our crops in the fields.
Here’s a newsflash for all you ignorant people.
The Marriage Act under BVI Law, as was the case for many other Marriage Laws in other places like the UK and US doesn’t not say that marriage is only valid between one man and one woman.
It only states that children and people closely related by blood cannot marry.
It’s only that our government decides to discriminate against it’s citizens by refusing to allow same-sex couples to marry here (by not granting marriage licenses etc) and refusing to recognize their rights as a married couple (if they were married in the USVI or elsewhere).
So from a legal stand point that is discrimination pure and simple.
The Marriage Act doesn’t need to be changed to allow same sex-couples to marry here… it already allows this. All that would change is the government’s position in granting marriage licenses and recognizing same-sex marriage in accordance with existing law.
If a same-sex couple took their case to the the European Court of Human rights they would undoubtedly win. It just takes one couple to be brave enough to stand up to all these bigots.
The church in the US tried to change state laws to prevent same-sex couples from marrying but that back fired when the supreme court ruled this was indeed discrimination and same-sex couples should be treated equally.
And just as is the case of most marriage laws in the world, the bible does not even state the marriage is only for one man and one woman.
So all you people talking about changes to laws and lifestyles etc are talking foolishness.
There are NO VERSES in the bible or NO LAWS on the books prohibiting same-sex marriage. That all comes from our politicians and religions trying to twist things to suit themselves. And the fact that our own government refuses to recognize our own laws is asking for trouble.
Exactly. Those of us who understand this issue as you have so beautifully laid out here knows this:
“If a same-sex couple took their case to the the European Court of Human rights they would undoubtedly win. It just takes one couple to be brave enough to stand up …”.
…and this is why I stated in my initial post above that the Mr. Cline’s protestations will fail if he chooses to “go to war with the U.K.” (laughable at best).
The day will come when that brave person will step forward, and Mr. Cline will have no choice than to step out of the way.
He will however be within his right to claim religious exception relative to officiating any gay marriages.
As it is in the U.S. and elsewhere, no religion can be forced to marry a gay person; however, they cannot preclude gay persons from marrying either, and that’s the point this country needs to get to.
At any rate, it’s highly doubtful gay folks will be lining up to get married at his church anyway when that day comes as it will.
So he needs to relax himself, recognize his limitations here, and stop all his hyperventilating. Keep it in his church among his faithful but leave gay people alone who are just living their lives.
I agree.
Nobody is forcing any church or religion to officiate at a same-sex marriage. Not that any same-sex couple would want their relationship blessed by a divisive, b*****d church.
The church is irrelevant. Always has been. Always will be.
What matters here is the BVI Government being forced to no longer allow discrimination of somebody based on their sexuality. No longer being permitted to refuse marriage licenses to same sex couples and no longer being able to deny them the rights currently provided to male/female married couples. To treat everyone equally!
@Dare what?. Please explain to me why you believe being gay is wrong? What is wrong about someone loving someone of the same sex in your mind? Is it just based on your religious point of view? Do you have any understanding of human biology and development or genetics?
Who made you the authority to decide what is right or wrong relative to people loving who they find themselves loving.
A lot of the misconceptions on the public’s part relative to gay people is rooted in the bible and ignorance of science. These are two powerful forces that often collide, but it does not have to be that way if one educate themselves.
The majority of gay people would tell you that they knew they were gay since childhood. They did not choose to be gay. They were born that way something those of you without the benefit of science would not readily understand unless you try.
So, may I suggest to you the following: Before you judge another gay person and state that who they believe themselves to be is wrong, whatever that means, ask them for yourself.
Ask them specifically if they chose to be gay or they believe their sexual orientation is innate to their persona.
Then go a bit further since you have access to the internet, and research the topic.
Lastly, let me say, if after doing your homework, you still believe that being gay is “wrong”, then may I suggest you do not marry a gay person and find you someone of the opposite sex to do so.
If your genetics impresses upon your behavior heterosexuality, it’s likewise because you were born that way like the majority of humans. you In your case, being gay it’s not for you, because you were not born that way; rather you were born to be straight, a sexual orientation you did not choose any more than a gay person chose.
YES.
All these supposedly straight people that seem to know so much about what it is like to be gay. They know with absolute certainty that it is just a lifestyle choice that gays have made themselves.
What foolishness.
If you are not gay then you have no right or understanding to explain how someone became gay.
Do hetero people think their sexuality was a choice they made. No. we grew up being attracted to the opposite sex, it wasn’t taught to us, it wasn’t forced upon us, it wasn’t a conscious decision.
If a gay person tells me they knew they were gay since they first became aware of their sexuality, that they didn’t choose their sexuality then I believe them. I certainly not going to believe some straight person telling me it was a gay person’s choice.
Why would anyone choose to be gay and put up with all the persecution and all the hate?
Why would somebody who has supposedly chosen to be gay kill themselves because they were feeling ashamed and being bullied – surely they would just decided they weren’t gay and choose to be straight.
If all you people so against gays and gay marriage then why don’t you push for Independence from the UK
Give up your precious UK passports and all the freedom and rights it affords you that you fought so hard for.
Walk the walk!
You sound sooo jealous of our UK passports. NO !!!….WE NOT GIVING IT UP!!!
Every country does not have the same laws. The BVI will not or should not persecute gays but that does not mean that we have to allow gay marriage. Be gay, love who you want to love. When you think of it, it really shouldn’t be a concern to anyone if it is consensual and both parties are adults but that doesn’t mean that we have to allow gay marriage. Some people like to pick their nose and eat it. It is not a crime. Some people are disgusted by it but that doesn’t mean you need to be picking your nose in front of people and flaunting it. Around the world people have married animals and objects. Marriage is losing its value. Maybe the whole concept of marriage needs to be dissolved.
Yes we will have to allow same-sex marriage. To refuse to recognize same-sex marriage when we allow male/female marriage will be ruled discrimination.
If we want to ban same-sex marriage then our only option will be independence.
We will
We will have to give up using the US dollar as our currency.
Yes we will have to allow same-sex marriage. To continue our refusal to recognize same-sex marriage will be ruled discrimination.
The only option we will have to block same-sex marriage is to become independent.
We will have to design a new flag.
We will have to give up our UK passports and all the benefits that come with this.
We will have to wave goodbye to our Financial Services industry.
We will probably have to give up using the US dollar as our currency and print our own – maybe we can even put Mr Cline’s face on a note!
Then we will be a real Banana Republic!
Will it really be worth all this just to stop a few same-sex marriages every year?
“maybe we can even put Mr Cline’s face on a note!”
LOL. I like that. His face on a note is right up his alley.
I never understand why we black folk support the church and christian religion. This religion used to preach that we were monkeys and good for nothing but cutting cane as their slaves. They only converted us to christianity as slaves out of pity, to save our savage souls.
Only when the British Parliament decided that slavery was now illegal and forced the church to change its beliefs that the church change its tune to keep us now, freed slaves from leaving the church or taking revenge. All they care about is the number of suckers believing the rubbish they preach and contributing to their coffers. They will change their beliefs to suit whatever is convenient for them.
Slavery was around since the beginning of time. Discrimination has existed since the beginning of time. One was outlawed in the British Empire hundreds of years ago. It about time the other one was outlawed also. And if it takes the UK government to force the church and our government to change then so be it.
Mr Cline need to be very careful with his words.
Comparing same-sex relations to bestiality would be considered hate speech in the UK and the EU. You can’t hide behind your religion and preach hate. It don’t give you the right to do such things because you believe them to be true. Protest or no protest.
And the fact that we are the British Virgin Islands and hold UK passports mean we can all be held accountable for our actions.
If Mr Cline visited the UK and repeated what he said he may find himself before a court of law to answer such charges.
@BVWhy. He is not wrong in that comparison, you are wrong for calling it hate speech. Fact is Canada has bestiality laws, so does Europe! It’s facts the bishop talking.
@Wrong.
No. If you use you position of influence as a pastor or whatever to preach that a same-sex relationship is the same as bestiality or even anything inciteful or derogatory about anyone, particularly minorities (blacks, asians, muslims etc) then this is classified as hate speech in the the UK and most of the civilized western world.
If Mr Cline preached this nonsense in the UK he would be in jeopardy of arrest and being charged with this offense. They take it very seriously in the UK… it’s called being a civilized, tolerant society. And this is exactly what they’re trying promote here the BVI – a civilized, tolerant equal society.
It blows my mind why people don’t see this as a positive thing. Just goes to show how much of hold the church and it’s has on people… they’ve done an impressive of job creating an army of loyal pawns to protect their interests.
You are quite mistaken: there is a seismic difference between standing as guarantor for a loan, and lending the money. The UK stood as surety purely so that the BVI could tap the credit markets at lower interest rates (because the UK is a triple-A rated borrower). This comes at zero cost to the UK taxapayer.
If the UK taxpayer bears anything at all, it is the risk associated with potential future default. But tomorrow is promised to no one.
But I am slightly more concerned with the attitude that: we give you money, so you must think what we tell you to think. That’s not how democratic countries work.
I disagree with the stance taken by Pastor Cline, but in a democracy he is entitled to say what he likes. But I absolutely *bristle* at the suggestion that money paid would give you the right to tell anyone how they should vote their conscience.
Why should the UK taxpayer assume the risk of default of the BVI loans when the BVI is choosing to discriminate against its own people based on their sexuality and therefore oppose the principles which the UK government and its people stand.
Yes we can carry on discriminating but if so we have no right to expect any loan guarantees from the UK government and its taxpayers. Why do you think we are entitled to loan guarantees if we don’t follow their wishes?
If I go to a bank and ask for a loan, I have to accept the bank’s terms and conditions…. it is not me that sets the terms and conditions. That’s life! Deal with it.
And the UK does not enjoy a triple-A credit rating. Go check your facts. A country’s credit rating is liable to fluctuation based on many parameters… the level of debt they are exposed to, how much in loans they have guaranteed etc. The mere fact that the UK government has guaranteed the BVI hundreds of millions of dollars of risky loans puts pressure on their own credit rating which in turn forces the cost of borrowing made by the UK government to increase. So yes, it does cost the UK taxpayer to guarantee our risky loans.
@Albion you are the one that is mistaken.
Of course this is how democratic countries work.
When country A does something to offend country B and upsets country C then country B and C impose sanctions on country A.
Ask Russia, ask Cuba, ask Venezuela, ask North Korea, ask Zimbabwe, ask Iran, ask South Africa in the 1980s
When Hitler was democratically elected leader of Germany do you think the Allies were wrong to stand against his actions? Do you think it was okay that he discriminated and persecuted and dehumanized the minorities in Germany and the rest of occupied Europe? Based on your statements it sounds like you wouldn’t have had an issue with the actions of Nazi Germany because it was a democracy.
Of course the UK is not telling us what to THINK… we a free to think what we like. But they have every right to demand how we ACT as far as same-sex marriage and discrimination in general goes. If we don’t like it then have the right to independence.
@mistaken, you are comparing imprisoning, killing and inhumane treatment of one group to not allowing a wedding. There is nothing inhumane about not allowing a wedding. It is ironic that you mentioned the Allies and Hitler at the same time the war was being fought the USA was practicing discrimation, lynching of Black people and gays were not accepted. Around the same time they considered homosexuality a mental disease. If there are no sanctions against Saudi Arabia for the way they are treating women why would we need sanction for not allowing a wedding. The world only gets involved when crimes are committed usually atrocities. Not allowing a wedding is not discriminatory. Based on that we can consider having marijuana illegal discriminatory against Rastafarians. Jet ski lovers are being discriminated etc. even foreigners will have a gripe since they are not allowed the same freedoms as belongers.
@blah you are wrong and clearly ignorant of the facts! And your views are repugnant, but maybe this is due to your ignorance of the meaning of all this.
As many people have clearly and truthfully stated on here there is NO law in the BVI currently that prevents a same-sex couple from marrying or enjoying the same rights of any male/female married couple! That’s right same-sex marriage is not illegal in the BVI. IT IS LEGAL.
The only thing stopping a same sex couple from marrying is the BVI Government – by unlawfully refusing to issue the marriage license. Refusing to issue a marriage license to a same-sex couple is illegal and discriminatory (because they freely issue the same licence to a male/female couple). The BVI government is not legally entitled to withhold a marriage license to anyone except children and close blood relatives.
And the government is also unlawfully refusing to grant full rights that male/female married couples enjoy to a same sex married couple. Again this is discrimination and it is illegal.
YES I am comparing this to imprisonment, persecution and murder. The Nazis started down the same path that the BVI government and Mr Cline are taking now – dehumanizing, sowing division and hatred, denying them their legal rights (this is what the BVI government has been and is still doing to this day) and then establishing legislation and laws denying them existing rights and criminalizing them (this is what Mr Cline and others in the government are proposing by banning same-sex marriage) and then it snowballs into genocide. That’s exactly how this happens. It’s a tried and tested formula. It happened in Armenia, it happened in Nazi Germany, it happened in Cambodia, it happened Rwanda, it happened in Sudan. And it could well happen here in the BVI if i****s like Mr Cline continue to preach hate and division.
Mr Cline (and a whole bunch of other people in our society) need to be locked in a room full of genocide survivors to hear their experiences and their trauma first hand. To hear exactly how these genocides started…. drip by drip by people preaching hate in churches, by politicians sowing division and by members of the public talking nonsense about minorities.
And if you think there is nothing wrong with stopping a wedding then why is there anything wrong with allowing the same wedding? What harm is it going to do? Tell me?
Nothing ironic about mentioning the Allies in World War II – everybody acknowledges that the Allied countries weren’t perfect at this time… and they still aren’t. But the very lessons that were learnt in the aftermath of the war helped steer a path towards ending all discrimination in these countries. That’s all that is going on here…. we are on a path to ending discrimination and providing equality to all our citizens.
Saudi Arabi is a totally different case… Firstly they are an independent sovereign state. Secondly, they have long established laws that outlaw all manner of things. They are a country ruled by religious zealouts and of course these laws are considered discriminatory in western culture but the Saudi givernment is not acting illegally by enforcing these laws. The BVI however, is acting illegally in not applying their current laws equally – there’s a big difference – and this is what the UK will not tolerate.
And, in addition, the Saudi’s have something everybody wants – oil. So they currently have leverage over the US and the EU…. the US/EU don’t want to stir the pot too much over there so won’t interfere and call for sanctions. Not yet. But when their oil dries up and we move to alternative forms of energy they will be subject to sanctions if they have not changed. Believe me.
Unfortunately we in the BVI have nothing to offer the UK or anyone else. We are a liability. And, as an overseas territory we are constitutionally bound to the UK so they can call the shots – but only if it is legal. And this is what they are doing. It’s how the world works I’m afraid.
The only recourse we have is to ask for independence, give up all the privileges of being UK citizens, and change the law to state same-sex couples can’t marry. But like you said – it’s only a wedding. Is it really worth all this just to stop a few loving couples getting married?
Marijuana is a controlled substance in the BVI – there are laws prohibiting its cultivation, distribution, possession and usage.
Jet skis are banned by BVI law.
And foreigners are prevented from having the same rights as belongers under established law.
From a legal stand point none of these things you list constitute ‘discrimination’ I’m afraid.
If this is still unclear to you then maybe you need to speak a lawyer regarding the current laws of the BVI and what constitutes discrimination in the eyes of the law.
But it’s an interesting insight into your psyche – that it is fine to discriminate against a loving same-sex couple by refusing them their legal right to marry and the protections of their relationship that this marriage brings. It’s only a wedding after all. But yet you think not being allowed a jet ski is discrimination when they are banned by law for everyone.
And the big picture here is that it is not just a wedding. Same-sex couples couldn’t care less about wearing a fancy suit or dress, the ceremony, eating cake and taking photos. What they care about is having their partnership legally recognized and protected by their own government and access the same entitlements afforded to male/female married couples. For generations same-sex partners were denied these rights. The treatment they received was vile and reprehensible. It makes you ashamed to be a human being knowing you can treat your fellow man in such an appalling way. Devoted, life-long partners were denied hospital visitation to see their dying partner – the one person they had loved and cared for the majority of their life – to comfort them and to say goodbye. Just because the government and the hospital refused to acknowledge their partnership. They had no legal recourse. Marriage was denied to them. In the eyes of the hospital they were legally nothing more than two strangers. THIS USED TO HAPPEN in the US and in the UK and it can happen here in the BVI. Why would anyone wish to treat fellow human beings in such a way? It’s shameful.
Very True.
With all our politicians here doing foolishness and thieving the people money and the corruption and fighting between ourselves we are a liability to UK.
In fact it worse we are an embarrassing liability. After hundreds of years of colonialism and this is how we behave and the show we put on to the rest of the world. It like we have not progressed an inch in 100 years. We refuse to accept the truth of science and instead believe in superstition. Corruption and crime is rife in every corner. The government in London must be like and ashamed mother to know other countries like France and Germany and the US were seeing this spoilt child of a territory acting up and throwing a tantrum in front of the whole world. A rude, unruly, child never makes the parent look good. I don’t condone corporal punishment but many would say such wicked child deserved to get licks.
Listen nothing wrong about being passionate about you view. This long paragraph right here shows an obsession. I didn’t read it, it’s too long lol.
No. You are wrong.
The UK does not have a AAA credit rating.
A country’s credit rating can change – it’s not set in stone – depending on market forces and other economic factors including (but not limited to) the level of debt of that country and other is risks it is exposed to (such as being the guarantor for risky loans).
When the UK’s credit rating is put under pressure and drops (as it has been doing) then the cost of borrowing for that government increases and their tax payers have to pay more to service their national debt and loans to cover their own capital projects and services.
So of course the UK tax paying is paying more for their government to act as our guarantor for our loans. It does not have zero cost to them. You obviously live in an entitled bubble believing others have to bear the risk AND cost for the mistakes you make.
Cline is officially on the ban list. Why is he trying to speak for the people of the BVI and stating that same sex marriage is “not the will of the people of the BVI”. JUST by reading these comments you can clearly see the people of the BVI are split down the middle on this and therefore the law should be implemented, respected and fully enforced with the same rights as straight couples.
Allow people to be who they are. You already work and live in the same community as people from the LGBTQ community (you just don’t know who sometimes), because it’s not your damn business.
If you don’t want to marry a man, then don’t. The law then has nothing to do with you. Get out of other folks business and live the one life God gave you to live and let them live theirs.
P.S. You aren’t running for Chief Minister, so go sit down somewhere. No one needs to hear you and stop pretending to be a representative of “the will of the people of the BVI”
Chief Minister? You can’t be living in the BVI. Where are you typing from? Lol
Set a batty boy…
You are projecting.
Goes to show nothing is free in this world. Take uk money now they want push wa dem want down we throats always a catch to it ehh
@Officer This is just what our slave owners said generations ago when they were forced to accept emancipation and free our forebears.
It was the right thing to do then. And this is the right thing to do now.
I see the BB’s are out in force…..
@ jcb
“Being gay is not a choice…. all the scientific evidence states this”
GTFOH with that BS!!! Ain’t nobody born gay
What level of education did you receive in school? More specifically, what level of education do you have in science?
They are so entertaining though, especially the transgendered. Lol sometimes I wonder if they lost many screws. Ha ha!
How do you know this?
Are you gay? Did you make this ‘choice’ personally?
Or perhaps you know a lot of gay people that told you themselves that they chose to be gay?
I doubt it.
Like most people on here you claim to be straight and have no gay friends or no nothing about gay people other than what you have heard through idle gossip and slander. So what makes you qualified to make these assertions?
The idea that anyone chooses to be LGBTQ is ridiculous. Life is hard enough without choosing to be a minority. Even in countries where society is generally accepting of LGBTQ persons, where there are equal marriage laws, these people are at risk of widespread violence and discrimination. Equality in real terms is a long way off, even in San Francisco or Sydney. It would be easier to be straight. No-one chooses this. This is a civil rights issue. People are entitled to their own religious views but they are not entitled to hate speech and bigotry.
I would love to see the first BVI Gay Pride March. I will fly my rainbow flag with pleasure.
I agree with the people opposing the idea of same sex marriage.this is not a pressing issue.In animal kingdom, he-goat will not pair up with he goat .They should look into issues that affect families with genuine families.Non compliant with UNICEF statute and disenfranchising legal immigrants.Giving belonger status and other benefits 20 years and over is not fair.
I agree with the people opposing the idea of same sex marriage.this is not a pressing issue.In animal kingdom, he-goat will not pair up with he goat .They should look into issues that affect families with genuine families.Non compliant with UNICEF statute and disenfranchising legal immigrants.Giving belonger status and other benefits 20 years and over is not fair.
this is what UK should worry about and correct instead of the former[same -sex marriage]
Rofl this is like a pot being afraid of fire. As Yoda would say “a joke what this is”
I never imagined that I would live to read such rebellious statements against Jehovah and Jesus in this territory which I have always believed was Christian for the most part,We have allowed so called higher learning and the various beliefs that have infiltrated our territory to influence our thinking.
God is long suffering and will give us a chance to repent,but there will come a time when this will end and we will reap what we have sown.Irma taught us nothing,but further judgements will be visited among us.Be warned.
The pastor does not need to go to war with Britain.
Regardless of what laws are passed,he can stand up and refuse to perform marriages of same sex couples.
This might caused him to be charged or prosecuted, but all who live Godly will be persecuted according to the Bible.
Yes of course. Regardless of the law, the church would still be entitled to perform ceremonies and bless same sex-sex marriage. Their religious freedom would allow them to act this way.
Of course no same-sex couple would even dream of getting married in such an environment.
But the government and other public servants would have to recognize the right of same-sex couple to marry.
Don’t you think it’s ironic that the only organizations that are allowed to openly discriminate are churches and religions. And they do this freely with gusto. Speaks volumes about christianity and organized religions in general.
I love the West minister system of Government and it is based on democracy: but the British imposing it`s will on dependent territories is not democracy for the system support freedom of choice of association to work and earn and do what you wish with your earnings freedom of worship etc. so if we the Christian community don`t accept that type of lifestyle it is undemocratic to impose it on us. for this is not our culture or customs and we have always been taught that this is an abominable crime and unlawful by the very British Government according to their laws at the time because they saw it as the Bible saw it; but now they have turn their back on the word of God and they wand us to do the same. We need to let them know that we rather obey God than man. and what we can`t understand is why something that the British Government regarded as abominable and wrong according to the Bible that King James Himself translated from the Greek and Hebrew Scriptures and which was in their laws and now they have turned their backs on it like a dog going back to its vomit and want us to partake in that vomit but I realized that this is end time signs and fulfillment of prophecy and we must deplore and resist this kind of high handedness and authoritarian attitude with all the strength courage we can muster even like Daniel and Sadrak Meshak and abednico and stay loyal to almighty God who is King of all Kings and Lord of all lords and who is the Great Judge that will some Day judge the Human race for their sins and this includes the British Government. I love you but God `s truth is bigger than you and I and that is what counts.
Can I just ask, why do people think being gay is wrong? Apart from ‘because the Bible told me so’ because the Bible says adultery is wrong – it forms 2 of the 10 commandments in fact and yet nobody is suggesting an adulterous person shouldn’t marry again or that they are perverse or an abomination.
The Bible also talks about how keeping slaves is okay and how you shouldn’t wear mixed fabrics.
So if we take the Bible out of the justification – why do people think being gay is wrong? Why hold that belief – where does it come from?
It doesn’t physically cause any hurt to anybody.
It cannot be likened to bestiality or child molesting because in both of those awful scenarios, a child and an animal cannot provide their consent.
My own view is that being gay is feared. But I’m not sure why. You can’t ‘catch’ gayness. It isn’t a choice despite what some people say. Because if it were a choice then anyone making that argument would have to admit that being straight is a choice. And therefore people are both gay and straight but most choose to be straight. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that. So the opposite (being gay as a choice) must be wrong too.
If two adult consenting people love each other, and choose to spend their lives together and are law abiding and contribute to the community by paying taxes and volunteering to make the BVI a better place, what is the problem?