Independence is ‘very dangerous’! BVI just wants more autonomy
Vincent Wheatley (Foreground)
Using Haiti as an example of why the BVI should not seek independence from the UK at this junction, government minister Vincent Wheatley said residents should be clear about what the territory is seeking to obtain through a constitutional review.
Speaking in the House of Assembly where legislators are still debating whether to conduct the review, Wheatley said the BVI wants greater ‘self-governance’ and not ‘independence’.
“They are two different things because independence is a very dangerous thing,” Wheatley said.
“Take, for example, Haiti. Haiti was the first freed black colony in the western hemisphere, and when they got independence, it wasn’t free. They had to pay something like $21 billion to France for their freedom. It came at a high cost, and it is important for persons to listen and understand we are not talking here about independence but self-government, we must be careful in making that distinction. Independence is a different kettle of fish. What we are trying to achieve here is more autonomy,” he further argued.
Young people this involves you too
In the meantime, Junior Tourism Minister Sharie de Castro used her time on the House of Assembly’s floor to call on the younger generation to participate in the discussion.
She said: “The reality is their future depends heavily on the changes that we make today and necessitates the urgency of a thorough review of our present constitution.”
“Therefore young people, let us make this our duty to engage in this process and to ensure that our ideas, our ideals, and desires are represented in this document because for the next 10 years, it is going to determine our role in the next phase of our development as a people and as a territory,” she stated.
The debate continues today.
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YES !! Finally some honest truth to the question.
Independence is good. Pay back the Brits for all you’ve taken and then when disaster hits don’t go looking for the Royal Marines and the British Government to help and bail your arses out of trouble. I’m sure the Brits would be happy to see you go and stop being a burden. Foy can then have a local Governor so there is no oversight to what he and his cronies are taking. Better yet no Governor. Just King Foy.
it would be no difference to what the Brits did to the rest of the independent caribbean islands. Once they had no use for them, they were glad to grant them independence.
Thank you Minister Wheatley for the clarification, because God knows we don’t want no independence for this little place on the planet. I had my doubts about you prior to elections, but I now realise that you are the right pick for VG and the BVI as a whole
The word is juncture, not junction.
Frankly speaking, any politician that comes singing independence should be viewed with suspicion. What they really want is to be free from accountability.
Take a look around at the most prosperous countries in the Caribbean (BVI, Cayman, Bahamas, Bermuda, St. Martin etc). Look what they all have in common. Now look at some of the poorest countries and those struggling-I won’t name names but you all know them.
It was the same way at one time someone came singing independence to them and they bought it. Now some who bought the promise of independence wish they could go back (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2009487/We-stayed-Britain-Shock-poll-reveals-60-Jamaicans-think-theyd-better-colony.html).
I take the point you were trying to make but, for the record, please note that the Bahamas has been an independent country since 1973.
This one cant see pass his nose
A new world began this year. The United Kingdom is dealing with its own ‘independence’ problems after leaving the EU. The UK may interpret more autonomy for it’s OT’s as a good time to grant independence and escape from their colonial liabilities.
Many people don’t really know that GB won’t be getting out the EU..the main part of being in the EU is utilizing the Common Market(4 principles of free movement of goods,people,services and capital).
Any trade deal between the UK and EU will include access to the common market so the word independence is useless there.
You don’t believe then research as of recently what the EU is standing by concerning those negociations.
On the other hand, there’s no British OT that can do well for long being a country.It’s much more than providing sustainable jobs.It will take many other things to keep a country afloat and ahead of the curve.Where will the funds for Defense and Internal Security going to come from?
The Annual govt budget can’t pay for security incase there’s a war.The entire Caribbean can’t defend itself if there’s a war.
The BVI will need a defense budget of about 40 to 80 billion USD annually for anyone outside the region to take you seriously…(100 to 200 times) your annual budget.
Access to everything else the govt can seek being an OT at the minute will be lost. You’ll have to pay the UKG and other countries for defense, which you wouldn’t be able to afford nor be first preference as you are now.
It’s many more benefits the Territory govt can seek..Some people keep talking about slave masters and such.This isn’t a social issue based around equality as it rasism and other issues.Independence will affect everything and everyone on every level. An OT is an organised place with a devolved govt..it can sit with th UKG and have talks and negociations for whatwver it needs…No need to march in the streets like other unorganised groups. Look around in the world far outside your territorial borders and tell me you can’t see the advantages you have as being organised..
Independence seems like a great idea but it isn’t.I’ve looked at many angles for decades and can’t see any benefits but to point out about the day we achieved independence as a country. It’s not as simple as some people thinking.Many other people from caribbean countries have said they wished their countries were still british..
The issue with the OTs is the disconnect between them and the Mainland..you see the benefits while living on the Mainland and that’s so because of the relationship in place between the OTs and the Mainland.
Negociate to have elected MPs send to Westminter to present the issues in Parliament and those commitees or whatever else they have in London.
Britain is still the 5th largest Economy on the planet.It’s a highly reconised Defense Power.OTs may need more say in some local areas but a better relationship with the Mainland will only strenthen businesses,services,tourism,health care access and services, funds for govt projects and the BVI need direct flights to London and Manchester and Birmingham Airports and also other countries like Germany,Italy,Denmark and Brazil(Long Haul Flights). Depending on Stateside as your main tourism market is putting all eggs in one basket. You already get access to colleges/ universities and other things.
I’ve been living overhere for years.I know what’s up from living on both sides of the Atlantic.
This independence talk and idea is like reading a harry potter book. Doesn’t even make sense for Scotland which is 500 times the size of the BVI with healthy Oil Reserves.
Don’t be afraid of firing the masters. It’s long overdue, prove yourself. Why should we continue to have England in our business? Haven’t we learn enough with what is going on in the UK with Black people? We clearly know that they don’t feel any love for us so, why are we still hanging on to them as if they were Jesus? Is that we can’t stand on our own feet, that we have to have someone else checking on us all the time?…
So what you guys are saying is that after all these years and after you became a grown old man, you still need to live off your Mama??? In other words, when would you be able to fend for yourself? You still need England to help you because you are not fit, you are not grown man that can provide for yourself?….BVI, WHEN WILL YOU GROW UP?
With a population the size of a large town and limited resources the BVI would be one of the world’s smallest countries. Places like this are more secure and prosperous when tied in as part of a larger country.
Population size of a minor town.
“Independence” Thats too much of a big word for a lot of people, especially those that like to live with their Mama’s even when they are grown old men’s. Where is your pride and responsability when others have to make decisions on your behalf? Something tells me that you are afraid to stand for your selves and on your own. Then you want to complain when the UK makes dicisions that you dont like. You’ll can’t have it both ways.
this is the sensible approach, small island nations with small populations struggle when indepence calls due to Power Corrupts All. To be given the keys to the castle with no reproach brings problems.let the bvi runs its own government, police, jail but with oversight and help from the UK not being lead from the UK. Helping the BVI along the path, no longer leading it.
Well, finally someone with commonsense.
Independence with what? Sea water and sand? No to independence.
I am always perplexed at the little confidence BVIslanders have in managing their own affairs. We often point to the other caribbean countries as reasons not to go the way of Independence. What do we really know about our Caribbean neighbours? Most of these islands, if not all, have progressed significantly since independence. Are there challenges and have there been draw backs? Certainly, but it has been a net positive. Just like the BVI, these islands, have gone through significant infrastructual, educational, and social advancement but on their own. They have weathered storms of all types and have come out stronger.
St. Kitts just to the south of us is a good example to look at. Just look at some of the things they have been able to achieve. They are the smallest independent country in the world. They have one of the highest per capita incomes in the region. They have not had to borrow any funds to deal with their COVID situation and do not anticipate any significant changes in their debt to GDP ratio (which is around 60%) as they have sufficient reserves to deal with this external shock as it stands being able to provide economic relief to their population and stimulus to their economy at the same time. They have as well been able to provide an extra salary for the past 4 years or so for the month of December to all government employees. These are just a few of their recent achievements. If we want to speak of corruption and mismanagement in these island well that is universal particularly so in the most developed countries (US, UK, Russia).
There is so much opportunities for young people to engage, develop and utilize their talents and intellect for the benefit of the BVI which are being lost as a result of not being independent.
We have invested so much in education and skills development for the past thirty years. It is now time for us to realize the returns of this investment at the highest levels as an independent nation state truly charting our own course. Come on BVI let us rise to the challenge.
to independence is the people of the BVI who have grown accustomed to the status quo. Unfortunately, there have not been insightful or visionary leaders who one can have faith in to pursue an independent path which is possible with the right mindset.
I believe the BVI can be a successful independent nation, however,I do not see this as a remote possibility with the current political crew including those in recent past.
Now here is the kicker, those politicians against independence will be the same ones to quarrel about the governor this and the governor that, and let’s have a constitutional review, yet again.
They don’t want independence yet autonomy, have major issues with the U.K. appointed governors and their constitutional roles. They want their cake and the ability to eat it too.
No one has the courage to think outside of the box, and in a way thankfully that may be a good thing. The last thing the BVI needs is an independent movement that has not been well planned.
Every government it appears goes thru the same tantrum. Quarrel with the governor and then seek another constitutional review that fundamentally changes little relative to the bottom line relationship between the territory and the U.K.
For some, they cannot see beyond the Union Jack.
And the band plays on.
Your point is well taken but all change starts with a movement towards it even if it is not well planned. The BVI has the advantage of learning from the experiences of many of caribbean nations that already gone down that path. For instance, most caribbean countries were practically handed constitutions by their colonizers which were not necessarily designed in their interest. Today constitutional review is one of the major calls in these countries. The BVI has the opportunity to chart a new course and be a standard bearer in this regard.
WELL PUT! With regards to St Kitts I will add that just 20 years ago it was not a nice scene and not a nice place people would want to go. 20 years, only 20 years it took them to go from looking rundown to such a beautiful place. They are doing a hell of a job over there and it’s probably because they have representatives who genuinely understand how things should be done. Everything here is petty politics which is why we go nowhere. St. Kitts is now home to some of the top hotel/resort brands and why? When their Government announce such developments, the populace actually support them. In the BVI? It becomes white people this, locals that, island people the other and in the end, NOTHING gets done! We in serious trouble here.
Russian corruption dollars – there for now.
Selling citizenship and passports – quick, corrupt cash.
Uncontrolled financial/money laundering business – great for some, like terrorists, mafia, thieves from all over the world when it suits them.
Tourism – a fine source of revenue, as we know, but completely reliant on global economic stability providing a steady enough flow, as we can see here, right now, while the West falls off a cliff.
Drug and other outside, fluid, short-term forms of corruption – cash for a few, from ruthless outsiders who move on whenever it suits.
That’s just the tip of the iceberg for St. Kitts, and applies to many other small population territories with almost no natural resources.
More self governance for the BVI – yes, why not?
Independence – you gotta be insane, or hoping to benefit from corruption and you clearly don’t care about your .people.
It all depends. Isn’t St.Kitts/Nevis Independent? Yes indeed; since 1983. Not only that, but they are among some of the fastest growing economies in the region. They have a voice at the United Nations, gives addresses; borrows/repays from IMF; exports considerable goods; (including to the United States, Iran, Turkey and even Russia).
Much more of what I can say has already been expressed in several comments higher up). I am a bit bias as my father, deceased several years ago was a Nevisian; but in truth, like a comment above rightly stated; they understand what they are doing, and what is needed to develop their country.
Here are some reasons they might have a better grasp of what they are doing. Prime minister Harris is a numbers guy; with PjD un accounting and management; deputy prime minister and premier of Nevis, Mark Brantley is a Legal man, a lawyer; Hamilton is an Insurance man, highly educated; (including Chartered Life Underwriter, with several certificates in the insurance field, Banking, Management+++); leader of the opposition Dr. Denzil Douglas is in reality a medical doctor. Regarding readiness and qualification I’ll stop there as the point has been made.
To further build on the progress we’ve made, BVIs level of political sophistication would do well to upgrade to require political education/and or experience for holding political office.
Instead of Focusing so heavily on the need for Constitutional Review at this time, a more advantageous area to concentrate should be in the area of better representation of the populace; becoming more Democratic and fair with the entire populace, whether party supporter or not (eg with awarding of contracts, positions in government and on Statutuary Boards. greater focus on Empowerment of our people in the areas of land/home ownership NOW; rather than waiting until the eve of election to parcel out a few lots; usually the case. The minister of Natural Resources ran on that platform.
Invest more resources/capital in areas of builder/construction training/preparedness. In the 1960s construction workers were imported to construct Little Dix Resort on Virgin Gorda and the development of Leverick Bay. Peter Island Resort etc. Today for the most part, construction, a key in our development has fallen in the hands of non nationals. Scholarships should be given in areas directly related to the needs of the country instead of whatever one fancies; (Medicine. legal, tourism, banking/finance/insurance, management etc.)
Greater Efforts should be Intentionally made for greater participation in the economy by nationals; (marine/yachting/Scuba Diving-ownership-management), hotels/Villa/Vacation.
Immediate change to the Incentives allowed to Non national investors. Currently there are investors in hotel/Real Estate development in the territory since the 1960s, benefitting from the avoidance of Import Duties. The period of time should be limited; example ten years, non renewable.
Currently foreign investors benefit from tax incentives in the home country…and further benefit from BVIs Incentive policies; often times not allowed to nationals. In return, the awarding of Scholarships should be required from sad investors; example, scholarships in hotel management, Culinary, Marketing.
You’re looking at it from a dry day view but it takes more than just a growing local ecomony to operate a country. What clout does St Kitts & Nevis have in the world of nations? Nobody really know where it is or what it is other than who really do their research and visit.
Everybody know what and where Britain is.It’s up to the OTs to take advantage of that opportunity.
St. Kitts as a independent state has a vote in the UN, the same one vote that Britain or any of the big name countries have.
Whether someone can find or know of your country is very often as a result of the distinguished achievements of the citizens of the country. For instance the achievement of persons like Bob Marley, Hussein Bolt and Marcus Garvey have made Jamaica one of the most well known countries in the not withstanding its size.
When Haitians freed themselves from slavery other WHiTE nations refused to recognize them as a nation and even to conduct trade with them. France demanded reparations from the freed slaves (think about that) and Haiti paid reparations from 1809 up to the year 2010.
This is a bad example to use as a premis for not seeking independence because the driving force for the suppression of Haitian progress is systemic racism.
I take the point you were trying to make but, for the record, please note that the Bahamas has been an independent country since 1973.
Can there be “Self-government” without “political independence”? There is no true “self” in any society, outside of “political independence.” The reference to Haiti is regrettable and out of context, since Haiti is the first Caribbean country where there was a successful slave revolt that lead to the declaration of Independence – an Independence preserved until today. Hence, Haiti should be a source of inspiration. The destruction to Haiti’s attempt at self-governance and Independence came through the collaborated efforts of Europe and the USA. The aim was to teach the rest of the Caribbean that when black people dared to seek freedom, they will be punished like the people of Haiti. Let us get our history right. The time for self-hate is over. Political Independence is possible but not without a struggle. If as a society, we are too timid to go that route for fear of the bullying politics of Europe and the USA – so be it. However, please let us put Haiti in its true perspective. They fought and struggled and are now ridiculed by many us. What a manifestation of self-hate!!! I will really like to hear Dr. Natalio Wheatley shed light on this subject. I am uncomfortable about what is being presented to our youth now.
I concur with “Freedom Voice”.
Unfortunately the minister unlike the often cautious Obama. must have unknowingly settled on the first thought that came to mind, using Haiti as a premier reason to avoid the subject of Independence
Other better choice of words could have been, BVIs tiny size and population, shortage of mineral resources; arid soil conditions and infrequent heavy rains and lack of rivers.
I suspect that the honestly speaking minister will choose to recant his use of reference to Haiti in his statement.
“They are two different things because independence is a very dangerous thing,” the Wheatley said.” The VI is a non-self-governing territory and under UN charter it is entitled to self-determination. Nonetheless, though the VI is entitled self-determination, in my view, the VI needs to pursue relative economic independence before political independence.
Currently, the VI is partially internal self-governing, sharing governing responsibilities with the Crown. The Crown is responsible for external affairs, defense, internal security, RVIPF, judicial, civil service, and jail (partial); local government, remainder. Of course, the Crown has significant reserved powers. The VI must pursue more autonomy.
Moreover, still trying to process independence being dangerous. The Hon V. Wheatley has expand more on this.
If independence is on the minds of some of the politicians here are things to keep in mind : 1.Can the BVI raise and train an army to protect the country ? 2. Is the country self sufficient in providing food its own food 3. Can they support an independent health care for everyone ? 4. Are they independent enough to cope with providing infrastructure in a crisis ? Irma did not teach us anything . With the FS losing money , Tourism in
Trouble where would the extra legs come from
To stand on. I agree take away some of the autonomy from
The governor but for now NO to independence
.
You want more autonomy,ok, that can work in a few areas but what policies have the UKG put in place that’s holding back the growth of the territory? They put in place debt- ratio protocols to keep cheques in balance from the territory running the risk of bankruptcy. The previous protocols weren’t followed.
Similar has happened in the TCI and they stepped in and shut the territorial govt down until they got things back in order.I followed that development back in 2012.
They played the race card and colonialism topic like it’s back in the empire days but hadn’t it been for that move, where would the TCI be today? Everything isn’t about black vs white, sexism, descrimination and all of the other distractions from the facts at hand.UKG saved the BVI and TCI from themselves. It wasn’t any slave masters anything.
Yes the country needs reforming abit politically abit but it’s 50 times better being an OT within a nation like Britain than going on your own. Britain is the land of opportunity.It’s like a gold mine in Great Britain. All you need is a place to live and a plan and follow through.
The OTs need to be in London and speak for their needs in order for the residents to get the other benefits as their counterparts are receiving in GB.
Taxes in GB aren’t any issue either..I pay them and get benefits in return.
Independence as some singing about will take you back further than you are. You have opportunities to negociate for what’s needed.
Who wants to give up their citizenship which can take you to 165 countries visa free to one that’s not worth having anyway?
Send elected members to London and whoever else so you can request your needs in the national Parliament and elsewhere that is of importance.
Independence in won’t be profitable for the majority. That won’t be a solution to any issues that’s happening in the OTs.
The solution is more autonomy but with more links to the UK mainland.
Those two in place will strenthen all of the OTs around the world.
This is about business and the well being of any section of the territory’s society now and for future generations to come. Since when do you know that in the business field the word love is a first priority? We are British citizens with equal opportunities like all of the others. Some may seem to act differently towards you at first until they realised you and them are from the same country and most likely the cultures and values are likely the same.
As an OT, you are in a place of power to negociate face to face with UKG. No section of black people out here can’t do that because don’t have the devolved government power Overseas Territories or Crown Dependencies have.Most black people and others out here don’t even know that Britain is abit more than (Great Britain and Northern Ireland) or as you may say “the mainland”. They barely know about Northern Ireland it seems. Most don’t know there are bits and pieces of the country far away in the North and South Atlantic.
The BVI as an OT need direct Air Links to the Mainland and enhance the tourism products.Fly over here and establish the many business links to benefit yourselves. The UK mainland is a gold mine for any and every kind of business. They deal with quality here.Businesses here get the job done.
Going independent to get rail roaded by the likes of China and others?
Breaking away from a world power as this country will make doing business and on social levels times harder than being with Britain.
You have the backing and security of Britain (68 mil) population collectively. Who’s going to look out for a new country the size of Cayman or BVI or for example(a Curaçao as a new country) in this complex world? This isn’t as simple as leaving your parents home as an adult. The world doesn’t work exactly the same.
BVI’s governance isn’t all done from within the BVI either. Many other areas the British Government deal with and assist the BVI government with daily,weekly and yearly. These ambitious, independence thinkers are not telling anyone about that or they don’t know about any of it.
Stop listening to every dog bark and look at the pros you already have and can pursue being a part of this nation(Britain) that already have clout in the wider world.
If the BVI and other British territoties want to be more prosperous then they need to create proper links to the main part of the nation which is London. You can always go further than the capital but Airlinks to London is essential. Sea Links to Liverpool, Hull and Southhampton is essential for Cargo and even Cruises if possible in the case of from Southhampton.
This is a good example in this Covid Era to look at things from the above mentioned. If the OTs are within the UK Common Market then it’s the nation on awhole that will assist the OTs after every hurricane or pandemic in which therr will be much faster recoveries.
Travelling to and from OTs will be very easy as millions of tourist who want to enjoy the sunny weather will be travelling within the nation as opposed to the way things are now.
OTs businesses, hotels will benefit all year long except during a hurricane.Importing and exporting to any other territory or to GB will be tarrif free as you’ll be inside the nation fully.
The only thing that should stay the same is the showing of proper IDs at ports of Entries.
It will take awhile adjusting to being within the common market but it will give residents more freedom to move around the wider nation as they wish.
Can you tell me, in 2020, being apart of the same country, why there’re no freedom of movement between BVI and nearby Anguilla and Caymans and GB but they all are apart of the same nation? The current system is stiffling economic growth as it discourages citizens and tourists from moving around their own nation for staycations and other investment opportunities.
Going the opposite way which is Independence, that is like jumping off in the middle of no where and going swimming with the Sharks in the deep ocean. Makes no sense to want to leave a rich country like Britain to have China treat you like a deer infront of Tractor Trailer Truck at nights.
The United Kingdom is the land of opportunities. You only need to be out here to see first hand.Strengthen links with the Mainland and there will be opportunities for everyone.
Given a choice between Slavery and Independence … we know the option which Vincent Wheatley would have preferred were he enslaved in Haiti under French rule.
What an de*****t mentality for a Government Minister.
Haiti is to be admired for its resistance to slavery, not despised.
I’m trying to understand if these independent country thinkers really know what having their own country is really about. They are using St Kitts,Trinidad, Jamaica as examples. Do those countries have a Defense Force that can hold off anyone for longer than 1 minute? Do they have a Defense Budget that can hold off anyone or anything for longer than 20 seconds?
OT residents, y’all please don’t make the same mistakes as the rest of the region when they did back in the 1960s and 1970s. They are only countries and doing well because they have no oppposition to face at their shores as yet.
If you’re apart of country like Britain, the Netherlands or France, USA, etc,at least you can be sure of your safety on a daily whether there’s a war or any other kind of conflict or not.
The security of your economy and livelihood is based on the defense of the UK Government’s Ministry Of Defense Mandate for this entire nation of ours.
There is no future safety being any new country anywhere.
If people like the safety of their nice houses, jobs, chilling on the beaches and all that then those are already secured with the security of being apart of Britain.
You may think you are in the world alone at times because you’re far from the Mainland Britain but you’re not.
This has nothing to do with sentiments above slave masters. Slavery in the old British Empire ended in 1838.Voting for Independence in this day and age, in the Chinese Era will be putting your lives, properties and Economy in harms way. There isn’t anyway around it.I’m not an outsider of the territory with some other motive. I was born and raised there in that territory that includes JVD and Anegada which contains the lovely Cow Wreak beach and the rest.
Nobody never said you can’t conversate about the topic but with China taking over in this century, and they will, it won’t make it wise for any remaining UK territory to sever ties from the Mainland.Every remaining territory can become richer if they lobby around the National Government and expand on that. It can be difficult at times but you’re times safer with this nation than to be out there on your own.
This is a powerful (Democracy). China isn’t.China is a powerful (Aristocracy). They won’t think twice about anything if you don’t agree with them.
Self Determination and the UN won’t be able to protect you from the China and that Silk Road Force they’ll be coming with.The USA right now have their hands full with China alone.Can you imagine when they fully implement their (New World Order)?(Can you imagine when they’ve fully initiated that Silk Road Beast they’re working on)?
The UK right now is working on something called the (UK D-10) which will include the USA and many of the G-7 nations to hold off the force of the (Silk Road China) that have plans to take over the entire Asia Continent and parts of Africa.
Independence in this new and upcoming era? Really? Y’all can think again. The Ots can have their local powers but all of them need to move with the rest of the UK as one nation if we all will have a chance to survive in this new and up and coming era.
That systemic racism and other isms and skisms are still going on in Haiti to this day.
Just ask what does the UK get for having BVI as a territory? Answer is nothing but whines and moans and ungratefulness. I say let the BVI have its independence and let all BVI belongers return their UK passports.