‘Indigenous Virgin Islander’ may be a problematic term
Despite a renewed interest from the public in the definition of an “Indigenous Virgin Islander,” Commissioners of the constitutional review team have hinted that the constitution may not adopt “indigenous” because the term may prove to be problematic.
Constitutional Review Commissioner Noni Georges said the topic of defining an “Indigenous Virgin Islander” has been raised by residents who have attended the public fora being held across the territory. But she said some people were recently cautioned that the word “indigenous” may not be appropriate.
“As Dr [Charles] Wheatley pointed out at one of our meetings, the term “indigenous” may not be textually correct,” Georges said as she addressed the controversial topic on the Talking Points radio show on December 5.
She didn’t give an explanation for what makes “indigenous” texually incorrect but some Caribbean historians believe the word “indigenous” should only be used to refer to the peoples who were living in the Caribbean before Europeans arrived in 1492.
Despite what historians say, some residents believe the next version of the constitution should further distinguish those who are “indigenous Virgin Islanders” — meaning people they agree have the closest ancestral ties to certain families of African descent who are regarded as founding families who built modern-day Virgin Islands.
In addressing the long-standing controversy relating to status in the BVI, Georges said much of the tension has been created by the British Nationality Act which doesn’t ascribe citizenship based on birth. She also pointed out that there isn’t much the BVI can do to change that law since British laws supersede those that are made locally.
“The British are the ones that have this ‘descent rule.’ They don’t subscribe to ‘you’re born here therefore you’re from here’. That comes through the British Nationality Act and this is where a lot of the tension comes in because those are rules that we (the BVI) cannot affect in the sense that our legislature cannot pass a law that will supersede the British Nationality Act,” Georges explained.
She added: “What we (the BVI) can affect is what we do with Belonger status and the policies and procedures and how polite or courteous we are when dealing with people in relation to that.”
At the same time, Georges said she believes it is time for the BVI to have mature conversations about what it means to be a Virgin Islander by heritage and a Virgin Islander as a nationality.
“We have to find a way to have these conversations and to distinguish between Virgin Islanders as a nationality status and Virgin Islander in terms of describing your heritage, your past, and things like that.” Georges explained.
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It is problematic because no such thing exists. We need to stop being this silly. We use these terms just to make others feel like they don’t belong. None of us are indigenous to this region. We sound so stupid when we say it.
and all the entitlements that come with this attitude..
It’s actually very simple. If your Grandparents were born here, then you are Indigenous. Plain and simple. In fact, there was a chart in the Admin Building that showed all the original BVI names. Your family name should be on there. This seems to be a blatant attempt to make Indigenous BVIslanders second class citizens in their own land. This is a shame!
In Monaco they are referred to as Monagasque.Only about 1/5 of those in Monaco are recognized as such. They are identified registered and recognized with certain priveledges and rights. There is no poverty nor crime in Monaco.
It is a system in a place that benefits and respects all who are given the priveledge to live and to reside in this tiny sought after recognized Paradise.
Monaco is the ideal model for the VI.Google and a brief research will convince.Better yet schedule a trip. Tourism is a major component of their over the top economy.
Whenever there is something for the locals someone thinks its problematic. This is bull crap. The constitution we have now speaks to who an Indigenous Virgin Islander is: Someone who can trace one or both parents to three generations being born in the BVI. AND WE WANT THAT TO BE SPELLED OUT CLEARLY IN THE NEW CONSTITTUION using the word indigenous and we pure breed locals will NEVER BACK DOWN FROM THIS.
So please stop all the spin and trying to make people feels it’s so difficulty to happen
It’s really simple. There are no indigenous people here.
We all have ancestry that came from somewhere else. That
applied also to the Arawaks etc. who all came
from elsewhere.
If you think ( wrongly) that it just means your ancestors have been around a long time, logically we are all indigenous
since there is no acceptable definition of the number of years
required to be deemed indigenous.
Why would African decent be relevant? The
whites were here before the Africans.
The truth is, it doesn’t matter who is indigenous.
Just treat everybody with respect and dignity.
What’s wrong with saying we from here?
Just Say we are from VI ñot here that don’t sound nice
We from mars,all of us
Leave the people of this territory alone. In every country you have indigenous people. We are unfair to the Virgin Islands when we can’t get our own way.
so help me understand the point in this constitutional review and meetings. Is it to listen to the people our to try to push their own agenda.
We could call ourselves Martians if we want WTF business is it of outsiders?
minds who anguish in discomfort with matters related to the local Black, his human rights earthly prerogatives and his local entitlements arealways met with constination, envy jealousy and hatred. Why is that?
My blood line go back centuries in the BVI. My family line go back centuries also. Why do i need destroyers of our history, people, their culture and humanity to be the final determinant in defining whether i/we are a human being, indigenous to, a local, belonger, native, a BVIslander or human being?
Are we not members of the human race whose basic human rights and freedoms are protected by the The Universal Declaration of Human Rights as was adopted by the UN General Assembly in 1948?
Haven’t the British done enough destruction, damage and hurt to Black mankind? Isn’t time they left them alone to chart their own way forward?
mankind.
The problem is that people who born here to outside parents can’t rep their birthplace without being scorned for it because they are not “indigenous”
The greatest problem expecting people to come here and builcd this country for us alone. We have to build it for everyone. That is why to this point we have no roads, no good water supply, no sewage system. A broken educational and health care system. We have to be strategic and develop this country for everyone who call it home
If one or both of your grandparents from bvi you are indigenous end of debate
Isn’t that the point, the BVI does not offer basic human rights to those not considered Belongers.
Having classes of citizenship is not protected by the UN.
But I think it is mainly the term that is disputed.
There is nowhere less like Tortola than Monaco.
Monaco has an incinerator, and no sewage in the streets, and everything!
So I am expat and my children father is from here several generations back. What does that make my children?
Many Virgin Islanders born their children in the US. Don’t they have the same rights as all Americans when they move there?
What difference will it make between an ‘indigenous’ and a naturalized resident? What privileges will one get above the other?
Basically, people like you are spewing a narrative that was given to us. It’s not true the history of whites conquering the land. Nor is it true that people felt you could sail off the earth.
These lands were first occupied by blacks. Only a very small few were brought here by ships and not in the hull of ships but as Indentured servants more so than other races.
That is why some of you all study nonsense believing you are well informed but you are not. The Phoenicians and the Canaanites who were black traveled the world and settled from over ten thousand years ago long before any other race existed.
Was your grandfather here when Christopher Columbus and his gang came through and murdered the indigenous Indians? After killing everyone, who were indeed Indigenous, the same slave masters knowingly wrote into law there so call definition of indigenous to cover up their wrong doings.
Boss, you, and your family were brought here as slaves just like the rest of us born in the Virgin Islands and Caribbean.
So, stop discriminating your brothers and sisters looking entitlement. This will burn you, but the facts are, you are no different than anybody else. Go Sid down!!
You want prestigious titles, and you don’t want to live among us.
So, you go overseas to get your children and sometimes resides there, looking the best of both worlds and yet, you fight tooth and nail to kick down your born in the BVI brothers and sisters who like yourself was from here, who fights the battle trying to build up this country.
Put an end to this nonsense mannnnn.
of all the people now living in the BVI were immigrants after Columbus discovered these islands in 1493 on his 2nd voyage to the new world. He anchored his ships and went ashore on 14 November at the Columbus Landing National Historic Park at Salt River, St. Croix(Santa Cruz). He named these islands ‘Santa Ursula y las Once Mil Virgenes’ after Saint Ursula. So every person living in the Virgin Islands in 2022 are descendants of immigrants.
“We have to find a way to have these conversations and to distinguish between Virgin Islanders as a nationality status and Virgin Islander in terms of describing your heritage, your past, and things like that.” Georges explained.
We do? Why? Does the number of great-grandparents bahn heah make one citizen more patriotic than another?
What we do have to address is the current unstoppable explosion in global population/immigration and steamroller that is malignant capitalism. The best way to protect Virgin Islanders is to STOP the corruption and cronyism that has been allowed to systematically undermine the labor, immigration and land sale laws that the forbearers set in place to protect the VI from disenfranchisement. Those laws must be upheld and strengthened AND our education system prioritized so that future generations are not just employed, but remain enfranchised.
WE can’t put the genie back in the bottle-rights granted cannot (and should not) be removed- but we have the tools to recork it. Do we really need work permits for the importation of gangs and prostitutes? And WHY do we have to import plumbers, masons, carpenters and electricians??? If immigration is a threat, why not open a trade school and apprentice system with trade license renewal dependent on apprentice training quotas.
Indigenous peoples are culturally distinct ethnic groups whose members are directly descended from the earliest known inhabitants of a particular geographic region and, to some extent, maintain the language and culture of those original peoples.
Those names were the plantation owners name. The slaves on each plantation were referred to as the estate/plantation they came from. So after emancipation they took on the masters last name.
Logically no country has indigenous people
since we don’t know where the first
human occurred. It’s divisive and racist
to discriminate between people based on where they are from.
The Human Rights Act to which BVi as
a British Territory is a signator
says
“ The enjoyment of the rights and freedoms set forth in this Convention shall be secured without discrimination on any ground such as sex, race, colour, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth or other”.
So what is the point of pretending we have
anyone indigenous here? We all have the same rights.
@2D Bones. That is my point. Their last name speaks volumes.
That should speak volumes. The slave masters knowingly wrote this into law as a means of covering up their wrong doings.
The problem with that is there are
no people here related to the indigenous
population since there has not been a
continuous population here.
This is a stupid way to categorise
and is designed by racists to discriminate.
My family has been here since 1907. I don’t
believe that gives me fewer rights than
someone whose family came here in 1906
Because we are ALL outsiders! Some of
us long time, some short but we ALL
came here from somewhere!
Only in BVi could someone claim that
having grandparents from a place made
them indigenous! You could have a 38 year
old grandparent with a supposed indigenous
grandchild! Foolishness. Some dumb a**
ppl here.
The answer to your question is “No”. Next…
It doesn’t work like that. Other people do
debate your point and may disagree with
it. It’s how grown ups do things. You’ll
get used to it when you get older and leave home.
Well that is not what Ms. P said.
So you believe that these islands were first populated by blacks?
If it’s true, what happened to them when the Tainos, Caribs and
Arawaks arrived? Also, if blacks were here first,
why did the whites come here after them
with their black slaves when they could just
have enslaved the local blacks. It wasn’t easy
to ship slaves from Africa. The answer is, the Arawaks etc.
came here first, then the whites, who then brought the blacks. None of which
matters so long as we all respect each other. The trouble starts when people with agendas try to assign predominance to one group or another based on race. Some people believe
garbage these days just to justify their racism and it’s just as bad as apartheid. Stop it.
To make a long story shirt…Indigenous Vigin Islanders needs to put laws in place in their country ..just like any other country in the Caribbean . Stop coming with your Nancy talk.Enough is Enough!!
Vincentians say…saying Vincy me a be
Jamaican say..Jam down me come from..in any heated convo…talk the truth!! Etc etc..
Oh so you are actually given me a script to say!
The Tainos and Caribs are Arawaks and so are many other native groups in the Americas and Caribbean. By the time Columbus got here many of these Native groups had long interbred with blacks who were the indigenous population of every country on this melanated planet. Research the OLMECS. White supremacy and the matrix have confused and corrupted most persons who don’t have a clue as to what is really going on. In many parts of the world the indigenous black population has been whited out and places like North East Africa have been renamed the Middle East. If you were to dig deep enough and the very bible talks about an invasion on mama earth. We are living through and struggling with the consequences of that invasion and the constant wars and conflicts that have resulted in the aftermath. What we should bear in mind however is that this period has been a tiny fraction of the time that man has existed on the planet and mama earth has begun the process of ridding and cleansing itself of this present darkness. I am saying this to highlight the fact that the true history of life on this planet has been hidden and a narrative that captures the mind and spirit has been promoted during the invasion that is now playing itself out.
What happens if your grandparents born here were not black? The BVI is so screwed up about privileges just based on where someone is from. That is so non-scriptural, yet people claim they are Christian. Absolute hypocrisy.
Best to leave the UN out of it. Best the UN not meddle with our country. They have their own agenda and that is for them to rule over all the countries. A global government. No more sovereignty of nations. If you think they will help with our countries independence you will be sad to find you are merely trading a “K” for an “N” and if you think the UK is oppressive just wait until the UN starts calling the shots. Be not deceived and do a search on how the UN policies are harmful to families and don’t be surprised when the National (global) curriculum soon will include “gender studies” and your young children start being taught that they can be any gender they can dream up. #awaken
Look, people use the word Indigenous wrongly around here. We use it to mean local, or native.
Everywhere else in the world, in conversation, schools, dictionaries, legal language, in parliaments, bodies like the UN, WHO etc. the word Indigenous means something else from how some people here use it.
Some seem to be trying to make it as a revolutionary act, that we BVIslanders can use that word if we want, EVEN IF WE USING IT WRONG! It shows how powerful we are!
Except the rest of the world just sees us as a real stupid bunch of people, ignorant of the language and turning an important conversation into alphabet soup by simply mixing up the concepts involved.
Should we all look like fools because some of you are too proud to admit you don’t understand the word, or because you deliberately misuse it to offend people and show our ‘agency’? No thank you.
Worse, all the time you half-baked revolutionary heroes use the word, you are ignoring and down-playing the struggles of other peoples around the world whose ancestral stories are different to yours but as bad or worse than slavery. Genocide is what happened to indigenous people all over. Some of their Caribbean survivors live among us as brothers and sisters, full blood or half, quarter, whatever.
BVIslanders should not be proudly deleting their story and their struggles while bawling about ours. This is a shameful, unnecessary betrayal of fellow human beings.
Be better. Find words that mean what you’re trying to say. Respect other people if you want to be respected.
Can you actually prove your lineage? Somehow I doubt that unless DNA testing. They say 10 percent of people are raised by someone who is not actually their father, but thinks he is.
As long as it has to do with a BVI lander fighting for our rights it will always be an issue. A Jamaican is a Jamaican. A Haitian is a Haitian. But a BVI Lander is a problem.
It can be said and justified that all African descendants are indigenous to all Caribbean land…As a Naturalize citizen living in the BVI from a youth for more than yrs now, I long hold the view that working contributors who hold the status of residency should be allow to vote, because it means they are here more than 20 yrs and is free of immigration and Labour control. That will be my humble in put to the committee…
It’s not “problematic,” it’s straight up WRONG.
How does that work if my grandfather marries someone not from the BVI, and the same with my father? Am I indigenous because I hold an original name?
Regardless of ethnic back ground, they are indigenous!
I know of white person’s with white indegenous BVIslander ancestry.
Race should not be used in this discussion!
PERIOD!
Try to be indigenous as much as you want. A very wise idea to keep your bloodline as closely related to your little island as you want.
Be proud of your grandparents who never left the BVI and reproduced within this small gene pool.
Good luck with your funny looking babies.
EXACTLY!! STROOPS!
To derogatory name call on this topic is quite immature. When a person’s ancestry goes back over 100 years, they have a right to distinguish themselves from other recently migrated individuals.
There are some hilarious claims being thrown about in this thread, worthy of a Hollywood rendition of Black utopia. We can call it ‘Indigenous’, and if Frances Cress Welsing were still alive, she could write the script. It would look something like a future dystopia (or utopia) where genetically inferior white people inhabit the Earth no more. In fact we could just use her book ‘The Isis Papers’.
You need to open a dictionary, you are misusing the word ‘indigenous’.
I mean, I teach history here in the states, and I’m not sure what parts of your comment I could file into my knowledge of the world. ie Would Phoenicians have come to the americas and lost that advanced sailing & other tech?
You wish?